welcome to a scrap life a podcast solely focus on the hustlers Grinders operators and business owners who live and breathe the scrap metal industry every day we are the original recyclers no suits required just guts and hard work here is your host Brett Eckhart all right guys I’m back another episode of a scrap live this one I’m kind of excited about it’s a unique story um it took me a little convincing a little bit of time working on uh Dennis um I’m sitting here via Zoom with Dennis lavage from c d scrap metal out in Houston um man I I got introduced to you via uh I think it’s your cousin roller right Chris um I did a podcast with him probably a year ago and uh I didn’t know at the time that you guys you guys were cousins so it’s awesome and then from then on I’ve just kind of followed your your story and you know recently we’ll get into it in this podcast we’ll get into the the style of C D and kind of what that looks like for the small medium-sized operators but more importantly man

I’m just happy to have you on here and the Mr two dollar bill himself thanks for coming on man thanks Brett I appreciate that I just want to um touch base and you come from a long line of scrap lineage really right to a certain extent and when I say that I mean just family in the business and you know whether it’s cousins Aunts Uncles you know whatever wives and and you have such a unique story such a kind of an interesting Dynamic that when I’ve been kind of pushing you on my dude you got to get on this you got to get on here like let’s tell the story so from what I understand you send me a picture 1974 man is when uh 1979 don’t hate me well the picture it says 1974 right no that was an old no 79. 79 was Wednesday no C and D opened up in 1979. okay so that picture of you sitting in it looks like is it a Chevy pickup like an S10 Style right and what year is that what year is that that was that was 1974 and I had a business

called Dennis scrap metal okay but you know but I’m not gonna age myself I’m gonna tell you how long I’ve been in this business okay so okay I used to go my dad was in the in a scrap metal business back in those days of course it was called the junk business yeah and um at seven eight years old I’d go to work with him in my first year okay in fact the only sure that my father had was a steel will with a four inch bar coming up about four feet five feet welded on with a bolt cutter and that’s how I clean number one number two copper Cox and faucets with with this shoe I had one of those I go back a while but yeah and then of course I drove them crazy for the next 10 years but uh I had opened up a company in 1974 I was 18 years old Dennis scrap metal my first customer was the Thailand Motor hotel now mind you this is a hotel that is open for business I come in I talk to this guy and he wants me to take their

own Broiler system out now I’m on a pickup truck I know nothing about doing any of this and here I’m going to go ahead I’m going to tackle this job of this children bundle while the hotel is in complete operation yeah so that was my first customer and it went on but I I was working from 8 to 12 and I would go out and buy a 100 car batteries for one hundred dollars from every service station Place Tire wherever they did batteries right wait I’d stop at the service station on the way to the lead company and I’d fill the batteries up with more water okay knowing the wind’s going to blow the excess water as I drive and I sold them for two bucks a pound so at 18 years old I’m making a hundred dollars okay in four hours and I was out by the pool the rest of the time I um found a girl in California and decided you know I’m going to move there so I pack up my and my scrap truck my pickup and I drive to California to see a girl I never saw her

again and next thing on this I went to work for Albert and Alfred on Soto Street back in the day this is 1974 when the Alberts were all running the company I ended up getting terminated because they were separating aluminum shaving grades of olymp I’ll tell you what the hell what do I know about separate I couldn’t get it did not understand it back then yeah and so I ended up getting there in a pickup truck with a trailer of furniture I ended up giving the pickup truck back to the leasing company early packed up my and I was on an airplane with four boxes so that was my tenor there and I went and did a couple of other stupid little jobs went to work at Market Street or Gulf Metal Industries and their zinc and aluminum smelting back in 75 or 756 and um stayed there for a while and then I went to work at a company called Houston junk that’s now Rose Metal they’re actually still in business today we had a shredder there were two shredders in town yeah you’ve been junk and they were on three and a

half acres of property and the other Shredder was at Prowler International um you know the big boys yeah and so I worked there for two and a half years almost three and I got married and I did the worst thing that a son-in-law would ever do to a daughter is I told my wife I’m going to quit my job and I’m going to open up my own scrap yard so that’s that’s c d right and that became she indeed so what does the c and d stand for it was for Cindy and Dennis okay and now Cindy and Dennis are divorced uh we got married for 38 years and separated a quite a while but believe it or not we we’re still in business together until this past November we still have a lot of personal business property but so I worked with my ex-wife for the last you know I’ve been divorced I guess going on I don’t even know eight or nine years and been separated totally for maybe 10 or 11. and we still work together until this day she was um hey she came to work in

96 and she does all it does not did all the accounting in the HR and then we started growing and had to have more and more and more people but she still manages the HR there before we we sold this past November and now she’s just clearing up and you know we’re trying to get out of there completely so as much as you want to say your story is different because you do have a unique story there is a lot of your story that like when you trace the roots of you know most scrap metal recycling companies right scrap businesses and mine included and we had a we had an interesting story when we had a partnership with Central Steel and whatnot it still traces back to family business and yours is no different in that regard now I knew nothing yeah how you built your business I believe is the uniqueness is that that’s the unique story of you know of of you Dennis and CND and how you were able to gain exposure and whatnot but I the part of it like that that’s interesting to me and that that does create

some similarities is is you you were I watched my parents build a business right and you and your wife your ex-wife at the time um build a business business together you had kids in the business you had a father in the business now explain to me that now that this is where I think some of the differences come in is you know you did end up divorcing um your first wife and you guys were able to figure out a bit and yeah at the end of it yeah you’re able to you know work through that and still stay in business uh which I don’t think most people would I think one stays one goes or the business goes like right so that’s a that’s a that’s a you know I think that’s commendable if you want my my audience opinion um but explain to me everybody else that came in you know into the business on the family side well you know I’m I’m very fortunate okay because I was raised in the days of the hippies and marijuana and all that stuff and so I you know dropped out of high school

in the 11th grade I had no idea what these people were talking about and it started in first grade when I got held back yeah today we call that add mine’s add-a-h-h-a-d I have a mess but I just you know um I had no idea what the hell they were talking about so I was smoking a joint going to high school every day I get to English class first period I was sound asleep and that was it never got in trouble I mean I just had no idea so I go and quit High School and that’s when I decided to figure out what I’m gonna do and I was in and out of the scrap business that’s all I knew from the age of five or six years old so you know here I am just like you know what do I do now yeah you know I have no education I you know and so I you want to know what I did and through my career it took one very serious Trend you know here 24 hours a day seven days a week and that’s what I

did for 44 years yeah yeah I slept with it I lived it I thought about it you know I could I have stories you know the bottom line is I have no education and I have been and I speak at United University of Houston’s graduating entrepreneurial classes here I am a high school dropout you know and I and I don’t tell them my whole story but I tell kids that when they’re in college I don’t tell them they don’t need it because to me you don’t need college you’re going to be a doctor a lawyer at a accountant whatever some people need it I didn’t okay and I tell them you know in life you when you get into the building too you got three choices you go to the basement you can kind of coast in the middle or you can go straight to the penthouse and those are those three choices no matter how much education it’s who you know and how hard you want to work and what your goal is at the end of the day so the key is man the key is and we could we we will

revisit the family piece but the biggest thing is is and I think what you’re trying to get across and if I’m wrong please let me know is you don’t stay in business or build the type of business you build by working Monday through Friday eight to five and I think that that’s where like my generation or even the generation or two below me they think that because their parents built a business or because their grandfather or because you know they see and they see people around them they’re successful they feel like well that should just naturally I should just have success it should just be part of the deal or I shouldn’t have to work you know 80 90 hours a week to attain success you know and and I have always pushed back on that and said you know in order to be successful like you need a few things patience being one of them and you’ve gotta be patient and you’ve gotta and the second one is you’ve got to put the hours in so it’s the patience to keep going it’s the hours you have to work and it’s the money

you have to put back into your business and continually put back into it that is what’s going to actually build you a real business right that was it it’s not an education thing you’re not we’re not we’re not running hospitals here right like almost yeah we’re in a pretty gritty you know industry where it’s it’s there’s still a lot of general labor that is involved in now it has become a little more uh mechanized over the years for sure when you talk about your first year was basically a hand wheel with a rod that comes up and that’s how you’re not don’t go with that almost but you know what I mean like basically uh like a manual handshare right and I think ultimately like the industry has come a long way but there is still a significant amount of general labor it just hustle and bustle and hard work that goes into our industry so by close three times a day from 1979 probably through 1987. it’s three times I live in Houston not Idaho okay yeah it’s 110 out here with a 900 percent humidity you know I did what I had

to do and I got very lucky and I got you know I had it was hard work and it was luck you know and at the time when I was married I had my wife standing behind all the stuff that was going on she was working for Shell Oil you know and making more money that I was making working at Houston junk I think I was making 150 a week that was and I’m here I am getting married my rent was 130 where I was living so it wasn’t that bad you know um I got started in this business and I was on a truck and I was weighing and paying so I had a scale in the back of my truck and I would hit industry and I would pick up their metal I would weigh them right there and I would pay them and we’d do that until this very day we weigh and pay yeah we don’t do it as much because we just you know I don’t want the the exposure of the cash and the buyer and but we weigh and pay still every day and I in some

way shape or fashion yeah and that’s what I did to run my business you know and I worked out of my townhouse when I got married I went to a mini storage I had like an eight by eight and I was stripping copper wire with a razor and I was you know and then I got what are you doing you were doing what every what every entrepreneur like Hustler does you were just trying to figure it out how to build a real business how does like oh I didn’t know what I was how do I keep how do I stay afloat how do I feed myself feed my wife feed my family feed do like keep a roof over my head like all the stuff that people look at now and they’re like oh you have a good life Dennis everything is everything is nice it’s you know shiny it’s the glitz and you’re like a lot of years when I’m trying to just eat dinner you know oh God Brett you know I just kept getting bigger and I don’t even know till this day I don’t even know how well I was

going to ask you so when you from when you did that what do you think was like and we’ll get into some of the influencer stuff here in a little bit but if they worked one year one day they worked five years they got five days that was it I mean it was one day a year period it wasn’t anything that yeah if I hired this guy and it made me understand that I needed him okay and the only way I was going to keep this one guy that knew metals and new shears and knew how to do this little operation that I had was to take care of my guy and he was with me for about 15 years but you know I had I started out with a 1250 that I went to a 26 I added another one and another one I had these three warehouses next to each other and I knew that I was weighing in paying but I had to figure out a way to get business so I went I don’t know if y’all had the green sheep ever it was a newspaper they had one publication

that went out every week to everyone in Houston right okay and then they and I went in there and I started advertising you know C and D Scrap Metal I didn’t know what I was advertising I’m just advertising and then they went and they split the paper up and decided to do Southeast Houston southwest Houston these shoes so now there’s like a set of Wonders like 15. so I kept advertising literally every single day I was in this and that’s how I I got my company going so you so the differentiator for you what you’re telling me is you were willing to spend money on Advertising from the very beginning not on not knowing not even understanding I’m just trying to get your name out there no I wouldn’t I want numbers thought that I was going to continue that for the next 40 years but what I’m saying is like that that but you by you doing that you feel like that was your that was your competitive Advantage was that you you got onto that and you said well I’m gonna try this I’m going to advertise I’m going to Market you

know C D I’m going to at least put some ads in this in the green sheet and say and see if it drums me up any business and it worked yeah you know and then I started buying a cap here and there I started buying t-shirt giving them to my customers and I never stopped advertising ever from that day on um my advertising budget back in 2008 all the way to probably or 2005 to 2005 probably to 2000 nine I spent over a million to a million three annually on Advertising I was running television commercials I started out late night commercials twenty two dollars for 60 for 30 second spots okay and I started running the out of late night and down you know here I am 30 years later and I’m the nighttime late night spots were free because of the prime time that I was buying yeah so I mean I was running on probably at one time over 20 television stations cable you name it I went out I became a corporate partner of the Houston Astros for nine Seasons the Rockets I’m sitting front row I’ve got c d

scrap metal all over the stadium I’d pass out um 17 games I would pass out 500 to a thousand caps rocket uh CNBC logo both you know I went to China I bought 10 000 sets of house shoes embroidered with the Rockets and the Astros are I mean the rockets and c and d and I probably flew out 20 30 000 pieces in that period of time wow and I got out there and I went to the Houston Comets and I was at Sam Houston Race Park and I was at Houston Raceway Park I mean the Houston Chronicle I’m running full ads I’m on the radio I’m I’ve got 20 Billboards out in the city you know my not a lot of friendly competitors when they really should be thanking me and kissing my ass because here I am introducing the recycling business to the fourth largest city in the United States yeah I was running my kids in those commercials my kids started doing my commercials my daughter I think was four uh-huh and my son was six the first day of taping took us eight hours between and they were the

only two doing the commercial and it took us eight hours of takes to get this commercial on the air and so my kids were running commercials probably for 10 years or so yeah and um I finally decided I don’t think I need to be exploiting them because that’s really what I was doing I was just and then I started doing the commercials myself and then I had you know I’ve had Dikembe Mutombo and the Houston Rockets did commercials I’ve had Snoop Dogg do you know pretend commercials with me I’ve had Barbara and George Bush sitting next to them on the front row of the Houston Astros I’ve placed myself all over the city to being the most well-known scrap metal recycler in the fourth largest city in the United States of America is what I did somehow I came up with this stupid idea of two dollar bills and so I was going to ask you so now I want to know I got so I like and okay I’m gonna get uh Tick Tock or YouTube or you know whatever it is and I’m gonna basically get people I’m gonna pay people

to promote my product I’m going to advertise here I’m gonna do this and do that but when I was listening to your story I mean you took it to another level extreme extreme influencer on steroids before influencer was ever even and you know and I built in my Astros con every contract with a sports team I built in my contract front row seats and I used to say to myself God damn it if I ever go broke I’m going to be really pissed off about the amount of money that I threw away uh but The Branding that I brought till this day and I haven’t been with the rockets and since um Fertitta bought our team I don’t know six or eight years ago I was with the Astros to the last to the season after we won the World Series right um I had a um left Center and right filled Billboards nice that were visible doing the World Series I think the first or second game somebody hit a ball up there I must have gotten uh God knows 5 000 hits on this because it was on every single news station

every 5 000 hits like 5 000 phone calls five thousand emails that many times it was constantly being run all over the world it was like I would having people from Oklahoma or people from California they saw me and I’m thinking gee and it kept running I don’t know if it hit a CNN or whatever the hell it was but you know going back going back would you do it all again the same way would you change it anyway if I want to be successful you damn right I will yeah but people you know I I all the years I’ve tried to sell my company I think one of the reasons I couldn’t was the amount of exposure that we had yeah you know a lot of scrap yards don’t want that exposure and we get picked on religiously okay but you know I wanted to tell you about in 1987 I think it was I get a knock on my door she Internal Revenue Service they want to do an audit right and I’m thinking everything’s great I don’t have any problems I give all my accountant every quarter he gets all my

no big deal yeah well this audit went on for like a year and a half maybe maybe close to two years all right and I’m sitting at work one day and I’m in my office and there’s a knock at the front of our skell house and it’s two got three guys and so they tell me they want to speak to me and I want there’s so and so with the criminal investigation of the Internal Revenue Service please step into my office they come in I have no idea uh-huh and they said Mr lavage you had the right to remain silent you have the whatever you know they’re reading me my Miranda rights and I’m thinking what the hell what’s going on they said we just have to we just want to ask you some questions and I said that’s fine and so they asked me you know one or two questions or something I said you know what hold on one sec and I turned around and I called my lawyer uh-huh it was an ex-irs agent who had been dealing with this with me and he goes just tell them

to to leave your office and any more questions they can call me and I looked at him and I said it was nice meeting all three of you gentlemen I have nothing else to say here’s my lawyer that criminal investigation went on for two years they ended up seizing my wife’s Mercedes okay uh-huh I was looking at a rod of Rivera’s people going through IRS audits everywhere I went I would see this investigator in my head I was on the Dance Floor one night with my wife it’s like you know and that paranoid people are taking pictures this went on for about three and a half years I’m on Prozac and Ativan right yeah I’m so high about 12 o’clock I need a stepladder to scratch my ass from medication going through this uh-huh lo and behold two percent of Americans sue the Internal Revenue Service and one percent beat them yeah and I went after them I got my wife’s car back I threatened a lawsuit on them if they’ve ever put my name in the paper on how it was ceased that wasn’t done I’d go to trial and I

beat their asses there and I never heard another word from them do you think that was do you think that was brought on because you were so out there no I wasn’t out there I wasn’t out there I think what happened is an employer of mine had stolen a government check and when he went to the bank he cashed his payroll check in the government I think that triggered it uh at the end of the day it became they thought we were double dipping so I had a buyer and every day the buyer kept at the time it was two thousand dollars he’d go out he’d buy metal and at the end of the day if he spent 1800 I’d write him a check or the Opera the the buyer’s account would start off with two thousand and they they didn’t understand why I was doing that they thought I was double dipping when all they were doing the same books it’s because I’m reimbursing the buyer’s book and here’s the and it was a cluster but at the end of the day I’m in every lawsuit in the government lavage versus the United

States of America uh I I got my attorney fees back and I could have gone for all of them if I had gone to the fifth circuit but I went you know what I’m done yeah I’m ready to be ready to be done so that put me and then in 2015 when they started getting the scrap metal police in Houston these are just the that I dealt with within a period of about 15 years okay of the 44 years I’m in business and so this cop um they’re just all over and by now I’m very well known in Houston right I there’s nowhere I can’t go where somebody doesn’t recognize me so these scrap police are on us like stink on and I’m just sitting there thinking you know so they bring this new sergeant in and um to introduce them and we’re sitting at my desk in mine I looked at the side said listen let me tell you exactly this is how I work I said Sergeant this is my office this is my home and you’re my guest and if you are going to want me to give you respect then

you need to give it to me in return and if we can’t do that then we don’t need to have this introduction anymore well that did not set him free okay he was a little bit upset after that because I knew the guy was an before I even had a conversation so but between 2015 when I started my last expansion uh we’re getting tickets I must have gotten 75 tickets from HPD metal theft they never not one ticket was ever had to be paid or fined because they either didn’t show up they didn’t have any evidence or they just up yeah and they went through this so finally this Sergeant comes to my office December 22nd of 15. he’s looking for at my other location one pound of brass we’re supposed to hold on to metal 70 we’re looking for one pound of brass yeah and 162 pounds of insulated copper I’m buying I don’t know 80 000 to 100 000 pounds of wire insulated every week I’m thinking this guy is looking for and so he gets to my other location and he gives my son five tickets one for the wire not

holding it one for the brass one pound not holding it and not re and not reporting it okay it gives my daughter three tickets I’m done I’ve had it my daughter’s a cashier she’s got nothing to do with anything yeah so January 4th of 2016 the second the third day come in and they’re with me about a catalytic converter two cats in a uh they want to put it on a hold no problem here hold it no big deal so they hold it and then end up releasing it no big deal well so I’m sitting at my office I go to my location this is I’ll never forget this day I’m 60 years 11 months and four days old yeah I leave my main location I go to my other location where my son is and 6 20 p.m on a Friday night and I said you know I’m talking to him and all of a sudden cop car pulls up and I said I’ll take care of it Brands my son says I’ll handle it so he walks over he says yes sir he says I need to speak to Mr lavage

he says why Mr lab and she looks at me and goes no I need to speak to that Mr lavage well since 93 or 96 I have always carried a pistol on my side okay I don’t leave my house without it I don’t travel without it I don’t leave my house so I will walk up to the officer and the first thing he does is he takes my gun and he says I have a warrant for your arrest you’re under arrest and I’m thinking it’s a joke because I’ve got like friends assistant Chiefs yeah ahead of the constable in Houston I know all the state senator I’m thinking this guy somebody’s with me uh well no they weren’t with me next thing I know another car pulls up so now I’ve got two cop cars four cops 30 minutes later and this is all happening in front of my employees okay another cop car pulls up six cops three police cars and here I am going to jail and I’m in shock I am in absolute shopping I looked at him I said let me ask you a question did Sergeant by any chance

put this Warren out and he goes yeah that was him I would that’s what I thought I said I guess that Internal Affairs complaint pissed him off so he basically retaliated let me go on about two and a half years of trying to get me to plea bargain and I could tell you I don’t want to do it money here yeah but funny enough I’m going through this I’m in jail for six hours I get arrested at 6 20 p.m I’m in my bed at 3 30 Saturday morning so from 6 20 P.M to 3 30. I’ve got my life up here yeah I’ve never been I should have been arrested a thousand times in 60 years 11 months and four and here I’m getting arrested from some chicken cop that retaliating so very first time I ever ever said Thank God I’m well known in the fourth largest city in the U.S as I was segregated in my own cell uh my own toilet my own sink it was about 58 degrees in there I have a shirt on I I covered up my C and D shirt because I

did not want to be in jail with that shirt on God damn about every customer I had was probably in there and I’m sitting there freezing my ass off and I bet y’all urinated about 30 or 40 times and I said to the to the I said is there any way I can make a phone call all I could see was a half of a clock and half of a Rockets game uh and he he let’s I mean that’s a crazy ass story but I finally get out of this cell and I go what are you doing in jail for what’s the what’s the deal oh wait a minute I’m gonna tell you so what so when they strip me and they do all the they’re doing and they booked me the guy looks at me and I have this around my neck okay this and a thread around my I didn’t realize that everything but your tattoos come off of you I didn’t know this yeah and the guy goes like you need to get done with man like that well the sergeant to the right of me goes sir is that for

your religion because now I already know something’s because I’ve got a VIP on me yeah he goes let him have it don’t worry about it leave it on I said yes sir it’s for my religion you know it’s not I just don’t want to take it off right so they escort me to this elevator and the elevator’s got a jail cell in it and I’m sitting there he doesn’t close it but I mean and the guy that’s running he looks at me goes what the are you doing in here I went some piece of cop so and so it retaliated he arrested me so go two and a half years of fighting I ripped his ass wide open in court my name was cleared within four weeks and I never had another problem with this so I finally ended up suing him I was going to sue them for a hundred thousand dollars that was 45 going back to me to sue him and my criminal trial and the other 55 I was donating back to HPD yeah so they could train their officers to not retaliate against citizens that file an internal affairs

complaint the reason I was arrested was failure to report to the state of Texas and I’m thinking wait a minute we report every day at close a business yeah state of Texas gets you know 60 percent and a hundred percent has to go to the city leads online right well we had just gotten a new the new system with um one of the I don’t want to name the company I will scrap dragon and we get there we’re the first ones to get their scrap Dragon X so where they could put it at both locations and if you went to either location we had your data well again it went backwards and so what happened when they set it up it didn’t allow some of the metals being there sent to DPS so he arrested me for failure to report to the DPS not only and intentionally but listen okay listen it was so stupid the only reason he arrested me was because I sent to leads online I’m thinking dumbass if I’m trying to get away something would I be sending the to one police agency and not the other yeah it was

just a chicken deal and I beat him and was that I think at the end of the day that and that’s that’s terrible man like and I’m all about police okay yeah our industry we have been kind of looked down upon for a lot of years you know people with the junk business scrap business and right now I mean people are trying to you know change the name of the industry to the Recycled whatever right and I get it I understand it’s an image thing it’s you know the guy that wants you know that wants to be known as a as a recycling and not scrap or whatever in Houston Texas to have the work scrap metal recyclers yeah and there’s there’s a long lineage of you know of junk and scrap and whatever else and whether it should be changed or not that’s not my I’m not we didn’t know before that I’m not speaking for the industry I don’t want I mean I just want to you know I want people to know it’s stories like that and you know the IRS stories and everything else that goes along with the the

battles that we fight to just be legitimate and and we’re doing the right things I mean are you is there are there some Rogue players out there absolutely there is just like a bad police there’s met there’s there’s bad police there’s the there’s bad financial advisors there’s bad doctors you know like absolutely but for the most part and I talked to a fair amount of people in our industry there’s a lot of good operators man there’s like there’s real Savvy businessmen real Savvy business women that are about it and they understand and I don’t know some of them have a 10th grade education some of them have a two college degrees like it ends it spans the spectrum of what what you what you’re going to run into but what is that the defining moment that last one that you just spoke of that story was that one of the things that kind of the that made you think about selling your company no that was all about the family Dynamics but I will tell you an ordinance that Houston had in 1982 you couldn’t stack metal fetish it had to be stacked six

six inches above the ground and no higher than six feet wow there’s there’s 20 000 tons sitting in Providence International’s yard I’m thinking what kind of dumps would make and then our mayor just recently passed the law in the city that you can’t sell catalytic converters yeah and I’m thinking okay well you don’t well Bel Air is one mile to my right West University is within two miles to the left these guys you know so that’s the most aggravating portion are the ordinances that we deal with and the of people that don’t understand what our purpose is and we do not get the well we get nothing but bad raps I do almost nine out of ten expert television news reports they call me when it comes to theft and the next thing I know I’m being accused of being the one that’s doing the the buying you know yesterday I swear to God one of our am I get a call from a friend yesterday morning 8 37. he goes Dennis you need to turn on this talk show they’re talking about you well they got this Auto Sergeant on the phone on

and he’s doing this podcast with this and this guy’s got two hundred thousand three hundred thousand daily listeners and he goes and someone says well where are they selling it and he goes well you know it’s like that company that pays in two dollar bills I’m not gonna mention any names and I called this police officer and chewed his ass out yesterday I see you don’t have and anyway Brett I could go on with story I know I know you can’t I I I I and that’s and that’s but that’s the point man that’s that’s why I wanted you on this show is that’s why I want to have the conversation with you is you’ve got so much experience you have I mean like I said I feel like you’re kind of like one of the the fathers of influencer marketing you took some celebrities you took you know you took it the the the you know the marketing side of the business and and I’ve always and the people have said this to me before and was why I enjoyed talking to you is they’re like one thing about you Brett is you

don’t pull any punches you just leave it out there and you say here’s here’s what I am here’s what I do and and I feel like that’s the genuineness that’s being conveyed and of of our of who we are and what we’re doing but also the marketing aspect of when you said you didn’t take your foot well I’m gonna kind of go back a little bit you said you never took the foot off the gas from 08 until just here last a year or two ago you kept the foot on the gas the marketing and then and everybody knows in end of 0809 the market was terrible I mean money we were printing money yeah and when I’ve told people is when the when the markets are the worst is when you should be spending the most on marketing and people go they’re like oh we can’t afford it I’m like you can’t afford not to because well you know I like what you said and I don’t want to interrupt you but you know I gauge my business on my marketing and there were times when I we had 225 customers and when

it got too busy I had to call my agent up and say you need we need to stop for a week because I didn’t want him being pissed off and then when business slowed down kick it back up yeah that’s what it did for us okay I mean if I hadn’t marketed I would have never grown to where I am today well I mean at one time I read a figure and you you’ll and I guarantee you’ll probably know this number or be close there was like 500 and something scrap recycling companies in Texas or some of those crazy it was like 550 different yards well I opened up at 34 scrap yards in Houston and 08 there were 190. it went down to probably a hundred and 10 or 112 I think it was and I think I’ve heard yesterday 131 of them were in Houston in Houston alone right like you know so how do how do you differentiate yourself if you’re 100 in 30 something yards like you better figure it out right and I think what the hack that you’re telling you know that you did and and it takes

a unique personality to do what you did I mean it takes more than just a million dollars it takes right it takes some thought process it takes some Ingenuity it takes you know some looking at seeing what other people are doing and saying yeah I could that I could do that with my own little twist right but it’s it’s a I mean this podcast could be just as much about you know the importance of marketing as it is about scrap you know you’re a nice podcast today is how do you build a business well you got to figure out what your Niche is you got to figure out like how are you going to differentiate yourself from 130 scrap yards in the same well no I took care of that and I’ll tell you something else and I they can all every scrap dealer in this city can call me a liar they can do whatever they want but I will tell you this when c d scrap metal is slow everybody’s slow when I’m booming they’re busy and booming I can promise you this and I know that because because of the recognition

that we have you have to remember because you’re going to get your course in the market share yeah it was unbelievable and they don’t and they weren’t shopping and I had customers that have been coming in you know for ages even when I sold my when I closed my other location down in 16 I got 95 of my industry over to my other location I lost the Montage basically because I we had no zoning in Houston so you can have a scrap yard next to anybody the only zoning the only ordinance is you guys like you got to be 300 foot from a school church or a residence I don’t care what you have next door you can open anything you want to open and so I’m in a residential area I bought six Watts with a warehouse and by 20 in 19 by 1988 I had 24 pieces of property and it was an acre and a half three quarters of an acre on the right side and three quarters an acre across the street on the left side and I was booming you know and and now I want to talk to

you about something because I talked to you about this before we got on and I listen to a lot of your your um podcasts and and you’re right about the family orients you know I’ll tell you a funny story the only people in the scrap business in Houston were Jews okay there weren’t any other people but Jews in the scrap business and so I grew up in a business that I didn’t know what I knew from the date that I was going to work that I was going to be a scrap metal guy I used to pick up um you’re not gonna ever remember this I don’t even know if you know it now but back in when I was six seven eight years old our toothpaste tubes came and Lead tubes okay I I didn’t know that but I didn’t know that I didn’t know that uh that that was a thing but I I did know about it no it was awesome I saw my lead tubes to my father I have somebody 10 years ago eight years ago came in and I found six of these in their lead scrap and

I have them hung up because today you know what we call that lead poison yeah okay but you know my my family situation in my business was I got into business because of my father of course I never worked for him my brother was in the scrap business and you know you can trust anyone and everyone but you’re in the back of your mind you know you can always hopefully trust your family okay and in my scenario my father worked for me my brother worked for me I have a cousin I had a best friend by the way all of these people over 20 years except for my brother he just passed away in September but you know I um I had to play two roles my whole world my whole career so here I am the boss in the sun I’m the boss and the white husband the boss and the ex the ex-wife or I’m boss of my son I’m boss of my daughter my boss father boss daughter boss and I’m playing two people yeah and when hit the fan at work it bled into the personal life of us

okay and so I always wanted my son and my daughter to take over my company my I’m sure my that Cindy my ex had felt the exact same I would have never expanded in 2015. you know I I moved there to my expansion in 2015 with zero debt okay zero death and took on a seven and a half million dollar debt in 2015. if you’ll recall those were some really nice years for us right yeah I lost a million my first year 900 the second year I’ve never lost money in my career I’m down 1.9 and so I had my other location so my son graduates out of college and I made this huge mistake okay my son should have gone to work for someone else yeah or for a year or two right I knew that his education is extremely bright like way brighter than what our industry would need very analytical um very hard worker and and it was in his blood okay but somehow he lost touch there and God you know he’s doing great he’s working at another scrap yard but no different than you and your dad are

the people that you’ve had podcasts you know I did the best I could as a father and I know that I did way better than I should have been the supporter of my family and making sure that my family had every single thing but those two role plays is what broke our family up I mean not my I can attest I can attest to it I mean I can attest to what you’re saying and I and it and as much as you don’t want the two to bleed together my dad and I working together you know two alpha type individuals who you know want to do things a certain way and my dad haven’t built you know a business and having kind of had some successes that he’s had you know before I even before I got there and he wasn’t rich and he hadn’t built some crazy business but he had had success and for me to come in and want to you know do it a different way and bring in young talent in people and there was I hadn’t heard somebody say you ever remember that show at Orange County Choppers

or whatever the father-son they built motorcycles and they’d get at each other and there was tentious times in our household and and when I had family get-togethers my dad and I I mean we’re here running a business and we wouldn’t talk for two weeks either right yeah and and it’s and my dad and I today enjoy one of in my opinion one of the best father-son relationships that you can really have uh God bless God bless him yeah my dad was my best man in my wedding yeah you know I’m gonna tell you something Brett you know and you’re not going to understand this either until you’re in your 60s and you decide you know your son or your daughter want to get in the business and they come in with these ideas but something I don’t ever want you to forget are them it’s at the end of the day it’s your business and you own it yeah it’s your re it’s your money it’s your risk okay it’s your liabilities it’s all on you and so whatever ideas that you may have if your father or I did the

same to my son struck them down we have that right to do that okay it’s not your business son it’s not your business daughter it belongs to me and when it’s time for it to be yours it’ll be yours but it’s not on your time zone it’s on my timezone yeah and I hate to say it because my son is an incredible operator okay but today we have uh my brother was working until he passed away my cousin’s been with me twice I think now 25 or 30 years off and on two times my ex-wife is still there my daughter came in about eight or nine years ago and her um boy of fiance at the time was in the Marines he was Selling Houses he came into business he started on our wire Chopper when we got it installed and he’s still with us till this day and my son and I I’m sad to say haven’t spoken in oh it’ll be five years next month my mother and father were turning over in their grave because honestly my son had it made you know and I will always love him and

I will always respect him and I will always be his biggest fan and it hurts and breaks my heart every day okay but you know I decided you know in 08 I think I was my company was up for sale and it was two weeks before closing in the credit crunch hits and they backed out yeah and then I get talked in to expanding by my son and I expand and so you know we have this out and I didn’t need to expand I was happy as I could freaking be where I was I was printing money I had no debt and I wanted this to truly happen for us yeah but it became a battle every day and then it got into our personal and you know I Cindy my my ex who’s my partner I as incredible as a business partner okay I could never find anyone better that could do what she’s done for the past 44 years but you know she didn’t in my in my heart my mind she didn’t do her part supporting me yeah she could not separate the mother and to speak to that a little

bit Dennis and and and you have a very like that like the story you just told is a lot how my family when my mom is the accountant right she’s the CFO my whole life she she that’s all she’s ever done um CFO for all the for for the business and and when I came in and you know four and you know five six I was ready to expand I was ready to build the business and if you have the money did you have the money that I I I bought a house I refinanced my house and I bought my first scrap yard in Gooding Idaho um and it was with the help and I I basically would basically put up the down payment right and that was kind of how we got that that yard going uh that being said there was a lot of contentious in time and so there were there was a time and and this is why where I think it relates the most is my mom is bar none the glue that made that deal work because my dad and I would would I mean it was rough

it was a rough problems stand behind you she’s took my dad’s side well and that’s probably and you know and not all the time but most more often than not she’s and my you know my dad like he and he would I remember him saying this he had a big brass eagle that came in on a scrap yard like this big and it had the wing broke off and somebody had welded like brasswell the week the the eagle Wing back on and he sat on the table and he said I’m the Eagle here and that’s and he goes you do what you want say what you want leave if you want but I’m the eagle and until I leave I’m the eagle and and it was like that right it was a very contentious and to his credit eventually I proved my worth and I said I’m I I love it I’m gonna keep grinding and I was I stuck it out and I kept going and eventually he let me have a little bit more a little bit more to the point that that I was able to kind of take over and

and get more people and get build more and do more so to his credit he he gave me the opportunity to my mom’s credit she was the glue in the middle that found a way to keep me motivated enough to keep fighting but she also kept me in check and she said Brad your dad this is his business man like you say what you want yeah my hope my story could have possibly turned out different yeah you know but I just when you told me that when you this is the first time you and I have discussed this I mean we didn’t discuss this ahead of time or anything but you you like I almost got like emotional in a weird way because I remember that like it wasn’t that long ago for me that I just went through that and so I’ve had people ask me this and and I want to touch on this before we go but I’ve had people ask me Brett because I have two sons I have a 13 year old boy and a nine-year-old boy I love him to death they’re my world I got

an awesome wife my wife doesn’t work in the business she’s a school she’s a third grade school teacher she’s the queen of the house right Shia and people have asked me and my wife saw my dad and I go through a lot of this stuff and she’s like oh my goodness thanksgiving’s gonna be horrible I’m like it’s gonna be bad and uh yeah and so people ask me are your boys going to be in the scrap business and I said I don’t know I I honestly I said I prefer as much as I would I would love to carry it on another generation I I don’t know that I want that battle I I was able to make it through I live to tell about it my parents and I have an unbelievable relationship um I wish I’m absolutely grateful for but I don’t know that I’m ready for the battle that I fought with my parents my dad more than anything I don’t want that I don’t know that I want that contention there is no preparation for it you know I I have a tattoo that says I’ll never forget where I

came from and I won’t ever forget where I came from you know the ultimate self-made guy yeah well I started my company with two thousand dollars from my father-in-law and my dad that’s what I started it with and so anyway lo and behold I think that ultimately that was my dream okay and I um about 16 months ago 17 months ago I decided to go and try to market the company again and so I had talked to you about this early on yeah we went through some you know the markets are up and I’m thinking you know every day oh God is this thing going to happen I have never ever you know I’ve been through some stuff in my life but this process it took 14 much attorney fees that exceed numbers that I never thought um time but I had brought a strategic CEO Company in they brought a guy in to look out everything audit everything and you know all this time I just stopped giving a like five years ago when my son and I I just said you know what it I don’t need to work

I’m tired of the you know and so um oh I forgot to tell you this and I know this is getting long but in 2020 that was a for me yeah February I’m very safety conscious at my business we have two safety meetings every week mandatory and there’s certain things you better be doing well guess what I never did one thing and I was put a hard hat on it seldom and every day I’m like you Brett filming and posting it on on our fan page and posting it on LinkedIn and I’m back in my yard with my foreman and I’ve got my shear and I’m about 20 feet and I’m telling my operator I want you to break this while I’m filming it was a piece of 6 000 pound piece of cast iron and so he’s maneuvering and I’ve got this great filming going on and it’s like incredible and finally he cuts a piece and the piece falls on the ground and then he turns it and he cuts the next piece and you don’t see another thing that popped off after it sheared off and it hits me in my

head it’s downstairs right now on a painted block as a piece of artwork it weighs 72 pounds and I’m gonna tell you something my mother and father may they rest in peace they literally had to be standing next to me and they did this like that just touched because that’s how close I was to dying I ended up with a fractured skull uh five Staples in my head and a fractured uh ribs Okay ambulance I’m into the ambulance to the hospital and then I’m ambulance to the trauma center now mind you this is February 13th of 2020. guess what you and the rest of the world are getting ready to encounter I’m in a in a trauma center Memorial Hermann Hospital the best trauma center and probably the country in the worst hospital to ever go to for anything else and I’m this close our beds are lined up within six inches of each other there’s people there and so that’s February May I have early covet that kicked our ass I’m down for a week okay so I’m already off work now come October I end up with lip cancer November I have

a Tia a mini stroke and that’s when I decided you know what this yeah I put a run in and I made an incredible business until this day when I drive by there and I look at this red fence that goes on for 800 yards and I’m thinking how the hell did I get here how did this happen to me and once I put the company up getting trying to get over the fact that my son and I are not together this was going to be his and my daughters you know it’s kicking my ass it’s I I’m not getting the support I needed for my partner to help me with this situation and I went on the market and I uh had talked to you early on and I ended up getting a couple of big companies that offered out another company offered out and I decided to go with this young company it was because I knew either a financial I was going to end up my ass was going to be plugged in there for a year or two or to find me a strategic buyer yeah the due diligence process

was probably worse than an Internal Revenue Service audit so lo and behold I hired the guy that the CFO company brought in to get all of our together and I make him my my CFO and he takes 35 percent or more of my workload off my ass I can’t find scale people I’m short um three scale operators I need a I got I need all this yeah and I just said you know what we’re we’re done I got to get out this company they have two other scrap yards in Houston Merchants scrap metal is the name of it I’m thinking that’s what he told me to say um Merchant metals or something they’re a young a young guy Young’s uh scrap yard in Fort Bend and he owns one right here in southwest Houston and I had to by the way keep this a secret for 14 months from every single person I think I told my brother my cousin my daughter and son-in-law had to know and my brother yeah I couldn’t say a word to any employees for 14 months there’s people coming in they’re appraising they’re doing a phase

one they’re doing a phase two they’re doing and no and I’m thinking so finally somehow somebody said something to me and uh the we’re already you know we’re almost getting there probably two months maybe I think away from closing and he kind of hinted to me that we were sold and I said that’s not good yeah so about two weeks I think prior to to it being completed I brought my employees in and I’m tearing up right I’m tearing up telling you the story and I told them I’ve had enough you know and I decided to make a change and I’ve sold the company and I said they’re not coming in here to make changes they’re coming here because they need us um they have these other companies they’re not anywhere near the size of us they had a they have a baby Shredder there uh they have all the cranes that both of their facilities they have their own uh in dumps and I said you know I can’t do it anymore you know and it it beat them down and I think you had it like you said you said it best

man I had a hell of a run and it’s not about I I posted something on LinkedIn the other day and I think this is important for you is it’s not your obligation to give your son a business it’s your obligation or your daughter a business it’s your obligation to give them the courage to do it on their own that’s your obligation and I it’s not my obligation to make my kids rich and I I know I don’t look at it that way I I don’t look at some others and the nepotism and the generational money and all that and and I don’t I don’t I don’t care how much you sold your business for it doesn’t matter to me it’s not your obligation to get yeah it’s not your obligation to give them a business my parents didn’t give me anything they didn’t give me a business they just gave me a chance you taught you gave your kid a chance and you gave him a an idea a career that could be built and that’s that’s all you that’s all you you know I haven’t argument I need to know that and

I want I think you do is I’m my goal I’m going for generational courage not generational money right that’s what I’m that’s what I’m shooting for I want my kids in the face of the government telling me what you can do and what you can’t do and everybody trying to scare you about everything and scare you from being an independent and scare you from doing this I’m gonna I want I want to pass down generational courage that says if you want something bad enough you’re willing to work the hours it takes to build it and you’re willing to put the patience in that it takes to actually build something worthwhile it’s still possible oh yeah well I wanted to say he wanted me to let you know it’s Merchants Metal Recycling they own Fort Bend they own H-Town Recycling and they’re getting ready to open up several CND scraps in Houston so my legacy will go on right yeah and um you know I don’t know what my place is I’m really not working now that’s a piece of advice I want I want this is what I want to do man if

you give one piece of advice to um generational um family business one piece of advice you having lived it done it and it could be anything I don’t care if it’s you know anything into the industry you think that that they’ll appreciate that they’ll they’ll take away from this like what’s your what’s the whatever you want you to know about CND about you well you know I have a friend of mine that sold the company his father had you know they had a huge company and um he bought his mother out and I always say to him you know your father gave you a foundation he didn’t give me he says he put me we were in debt I said well he didn’t give you a foundation you’re in the same business that he’s in you really literally have a cement Foundation here and you’re in the business so you need to give your father a little bit of credit there right look I did all I could do I wanted something it didn’t happen at the end of the day Brett I had zero regrets I could not be any happier I live

in Houston I live in Florida I have a place there I you know I just need to keep my mind busy yeah and I always need to keep this on my mind and I’ll say it over never forget where I came from because what I have today could be gone tomorrow yeah you know and so if you want to get somewhere go out there and work your ass off and this business there’s nothing like our industry there’s not another business I I look at this deal I did like three days before I sold out I made fifty three thousand dollars on inco 718 shavings in about 12 minutes yeah where what business in the world is there that gives you that opportunity you know I sent you that stage that aluminum thing yeah that was when Janet Jackson exposed her boobs uh that came from MTV and the next thing I know it was on People magazine that’s the states that Janet came in yeah and came off on the stage and her boob fell out I have stories like I bought a casket and I put it on my property so because I

was there was a lot they couldn’t see me and I put a big bird on top of it I put a gorilla on top of it I did some crazy but you know something it worked for me and I spent I don’t know 12 million dollars I guess in marketing over that 44-year career and this company is going to come in and I hope they get you know they’re young and they’re going to get it going I wish you the best and man I just I love it I I can’t thank you enough at the end of the day leave with this never forget where you came from that’s it brother you know and hey I appreciate you getting me on here you know the only thing I really ever knew about Idaho was the potatoes and now I’m gonna get your ass outside all you got is time right I got a pedicure the other day but I you know what I am gonna make it to Idaho and I don’t and I don’t play games if I tell you I’m gonna do something I don’t know what let’s do it man

I’m in but I’m gonna I’m gonna come as long as it’s not cold I’m not into cold well come in the summer coming to Summer right right anyway man thanks again Brett absolutely absolutely you have a great day and I hope everybody enjoys this and yet don’t forget we pay in two dollar bills yes sir scrap metal needs take care take care