welcome to a scrap life a podcast solely focus on the hustlers grinders operators and business owners who live and breathe the scrap metal industry every day we are the original recyclers no suits required just debts and hard work here is your host right Akane I’m pretty excited about this podcast it took a little convincing on my part to get my mom to sit down with my dad and I but I finally got it done a couple of bottles of Idaho wine and some plastic wine glasses got the juices flowing and eventually we were able to dig into our family scrap business history I hope you enjoyed as much as I did and I encourage everyone to sit down with their parents sometime and pick their brains about their family history enjoy all right everybody sitting here with my parents I didn’t sleep that well last night because I think I was kind of nervous for this podcast nervous because I want to come out good but nervous because I’ve done a few podcasts but I’ve never interviewed the two of you so a couple years ago Jay interviewed you and you kind of

sat down in their conference table and gave your two cents on the business and kind of some some thoughts and how it was going and kind of how it came to be but you did pretty good job dragging out information yeah James James good she’s really good there’s been a lot of stuff anyways so I’m sitting here rotting Debbie Eckhart my mom and my dad and because this is a scrap life podcast it’s the goal is just to talk to people that we’re gonna scrap business described as assists either change their life or they’re in a family business or anything like that so as comfortable as I am sometimes sitting here just BS with you guys when the cameras aren’t on I’m gonna do my best to keep it relaxed and just kind of talk about our family a how we got into the scrap business and just kind of some history of you know what you guys remember and kind of go from there so we’ve got a couple Idaho wines everybody hears from Idaho you guys are born and raised and Caldwell Idaho I was born and raised in Caldwell Idaho so

I figured what better if you’re gonna have a drink might as well have something made here and I know Colette hill-hill standing there you go so why don’t you start with the background of Grandpa and just kind of give us just give give everybody an idea of how you know grandpa got into your dad got into the scrap business and the history behind the formation of United metals well I guess how far do you want to go back like the very very beginning beginning right yeah yeah so lacking of dates 70-something then he formed a partnership with his brother and brother-in-law I her Eckart and Don Robinson and they called it bid salvage bid sauvages per tire and Don and I guess prior to that his work experience came from working for United iron guy by the name of Judge Birnbaum then he was the manager of the Napa location when he formed his partnership with his relatives and the I think doing that he knew that he was going to take over United iron he knew at that point he was going to try to buy judge Birnbaum out

of the scrap business and it took about six months before a judge Birnbaum didn’t want any part of the scrap business anymore or he just was a partnership or he just was ready to do something he was ready to do something different and I think that the partners got together and and they made the judge a pretty decent offer and what that was I have no idea because I was probably low 70 and I – alright so maybe even junior yeah okay so grandpa gets together with his brother and their brother-in-law they partner up and they buy out judge Birnbaum so it becomes United iron or is that when it becomes United metals yeah become United metal and scrap yeah 1972 – metal that’s great company correct okay yep so at that point 1972 they get going and if I recall just from unionized conversation there that yard was in abide Oh or was it that’s where dad was the manager was an amp I don’t when they opened up a yard and called well it would swear our burn yard is right now okay okay so 72 he do at what point did

he close the yard in Nampa yeah yeah probably 74 75 it wasn’t that long after they kind of consolidated all into one yard yep okay so you started working there in high school junior junior high as soon as you could I mean we worked in the in our driveway cleaning a csr wire pulling the steel out of wire sorting the steel at a copper clad wire in our driveway at home that’s how we earned our summer money so when you cleaned a CSR just for all you scrap guys know exactly what a CSR is would you cut it in like short lengths so you can untwist it I’m gonna pull the steel up before you had all these fancy chop machines it’s cut in split in mags pulled the steel up okay yeah 10 cents a pound so not to get to like not to interrupt you too far but mom was your neighbor right girl at that point did you see did you see him cleaning you CSRA yes yeah so for anybody that wants to know out there I mean you guys grew up across the street from each other so you

got to see the scrap business early yeah these portions of it in the driveway right I was in the third grade when his family moved to happen he was in the fourth grade so yeah yeah okay and it was a good neighborhood I mean it was but just a car across the street like scrap it yeah and at that and at what point did was Kenny bull involved because I think Kenny Kenny bull is you know kind of a big part of that this deals as anybody but at what point did Kenny ball come along and was he helping you clean scrap in the driveway or did he just come and start working in the yard because he’s your older couple years old in school or you know what year he came in got wished had a better answer for that I have to think about that Kenny came in and we were in high school he’s in work and he was you know a great ahead of me in high school and I think that he was able to go to work after school about a year before okay so that’s when he

could officially go to work full-time at the yard and that was right after he graduated okay it’s know probably 74 1994 that he spent maybe a year working for Scott sighs which is just kind of a kiddy Korner yeah okay and so mom at what point did you come into the business well I think when I was 16 I worked one summer in the scale house they open your grandma buy scrap you know your grandpa was there on a Saturday or whatever I could I think that was one summer yep maybe your two before I graduated from Boise you graduate right so I remember going in there and so I mean Ben as a pretty young kid and grandma running scale right and Grandpa having his office in the back of the main coal yard right where Buxton’s office is now knows my office for a while but that was a lot of people’s offices we even before that but when you guys were growing the business so you had your brother brother-in-law sister at one point right do both sisters are once this is one one sister Sharon so when

we talk about family business family scrap business I mean I think a lot of people can relate to family scrap business or any family business that has like a ton of family you know your mom your dad a ton of luck kind of forget about the Lloyd’s Lee and Phyllis Lloyd okay they were dad’s partners because they hired him up to come take care of the books he was on the camper for an accountant and I believe he came up out of California so he came to work for grandpa yes okay him and his wife yep they’re both on the accounting side right and two sons okay so the family business was basically two families two families working like so a family in business dynamics is like it’s awesome but it also comes with like a lot of challenges and a lot of there’s a lot of that can go sideways I always say I mean you know a lot of personalities because personalities and it’s amazing views are not always the same even though the same family I have two sons and I look at them and they’re they come from saying mom

same dad and they’re like ice or sometimes they’re like think there’s still gold opposites so when you get that many family members people do this have different strengths different weaknesses different character traits so when I guess my next question is so as people as people in the family started leaving the business and whatnot who was kind of the mainstays in the family business saying like the early 90s as you guys kind of transitioned into as the Lloyd’s left it became mostly back arts and you know people that you eventually started hiring who do you when you look back and see family members that weren’t actually see people that weren’t family members who was like big influences in the business in those years you know in the 80s and 90s other than family members where did we buy the muffler shop it was like 87 I believe so a 1987 that’s when yeah some worry I don’t know but anyway right then there that late 80s really nice that’s when Robert left the business so your brother Rodney what to run and buy the muffler shop his wife Lori right so and do you think

grandpa did that you know we you and I have had this conversation but I mean did Grandpa do that because he could see that it was wasn’t gonna work with you Robert working together you know there’s probably some good insight with that thought you know I would say but I would also say that it was an opportunity you know that dad had created a really good friend in the bank that was repossessed it from the wilmore’s the muffler shop and and it was just a great opportunity that doesn’t prove to be right so it’s kind of a way to invest back in right property and business and in the family and around it that way I assume I mean Robert you know was always a very excellent mechanic I mean he always that was always his thing and it first yeah so when you came in in 16 mom obviously you didn’t work there from 16 on no this one summer yep just at summer then finished high school and I worked at JC Penney’s for what five years I’m also full-time yes after yeah cuz we got married right after I graduated

and so then I worked there full-time then I also went in got accounting degree well I was working and then quit JC Penney’s and went to work for United in 1982 so from eighteen to twenty-two twenty-three what you do at JC Penney I worked in the stockroom so I did checked in merchandise checked orders book work on the back side of the retail so did you did anything from like customer service or anything like stuff that you from JCPenney like transfer over or was it just like it means to an end until you came to work at this crap well I think it was good the fact that you actually had an opportunity to work outside of your family business to see how other things run you know and and get along with your co-workers you know what you don’t I mean always have that opportunity sometimes it’s bit family and sometimes it’s you know not and this was not family at JC Penney’s so but it was a great group of people and yeah I liked I liked doing that it was yeah it was it definitely yeah it

was fun it was a good time so you came and when you came to work full-time at United medals you know I had metal and scrap company and get that time um I worked for my grandpa and grandma still ran the scale right and so at that point you basically were he was training you you were training him to do the books right the back end right right and at that time that what I’d learned you know through the college there’s you know what computers weren’t really that prevalent right then so it was something that grandpa really thought that we needed to get into the office and Grandma you know she didn’t want any part of that so grandpa you know knew that they net too it takes somebody young you know with a little bit of knowledge to bring that in to help the business you know go a little bit smooth so at that point how many employees was there total I think when you came in full-time grandma grandpa was still there let me say maybe 10 I mean at 10 to 15 10 that counts I mean every

truck drivers – I mean – yeah yeah so like one of the like one of the things I’m the most proud of and that I always bring up and when I post stuff on social media and I just made a post the other day and I took a picture of one of the pictures that was one of the older pictures 1978 was taken of our yard and I said when this picture was taken our family the only thing we owned was this scrap yard like we only had one yard it wasn’t called well I mean as far as like how many multiple yards and that was in 78 other than say victim uh Fleur shop when we were running the property yeah and we didn’t even know the property that right so I tell people like what I love about America what I love about people with work ethic and what I love about you know if you were willing to put the time in and put the money back in your business and believe and what you’re doing then like you can go for an X to see but it takes a lot of time

there’s a lot of heart a lot of patience a lot of trial tribulations so like that’s one of the biggest reasons why I want to sit down to this interview is because when we talk about like the 78 pictures taken you know and you can still see the silos and you can still see the purina whatever plant in the background and you can see on the side where our main scale isn’t Caldwell now is there’s pipe and stuff over there like there’s a take a lot of time to accumulate and do and build so the history of it is just as important to me as what goes on every day because if you understand the history of it then it gives you crates you gives you patience to go forward and so I said I appreciate you sitting down and going through the history with me so now we’re in the 80s you’re full time at 10 to 15 employees depending on probably how the market is or it’s okay right and the next step for you guys to grow the business at this point and I don’t want to pass over the fact

I don’t want to pass over or United hauling and kind of how that came to be so I’ll kind of want to back up just a tear let’s kind of discuss how you ned hauling which is a major part of our business now how did the United hauling come in to the fold which is our trucking company so we were using may trucking and shoemaker trucking to and our own trucks to haul scrap to Portland it’s not like we had a lot of scrap because 500 tons in a month for us was a lot of scrap that was a good month but we still needed some outside help didn’t that’s who we chose her dad they were the only ones available but they also had truck drivers and they always sent the same people in and my dad just started pilfering ideas off of them and then he generally just hired them two guys from a trucking to come work for him and the bottom trucks he bought him to 1979 Ken worse and we ended up with a third one because if you’re gonna make a girl may as well go big right

now yes yeah it was a big step but then so we ended up hiring another driver and my brother-in-law Ron Taylor drove one of those trucks and those guys would go to poor little scrap and then they would go Sun and Jupiter truck stop or somewhere all day long waiting for the phone to ring or pick a load up off the boards or you know the reader boards up there and at the end of the day if they didn’t find anything they just jumped in the truck and drove home just come back just deadhead Diane about yeah because it was just as important at that time to move the scrap as it was yeah if you could add up that extra money to her per trip and that’s how you drivers got paid okay so that’s a 79 and that went to 82 with those trucks they went from 79 to 82 so there was a period of time when you would work in the scrap yard all day and then jump in a truck and drive the u-haul you drive truck and haul load to Portland only if I got

lucky enough yeah I considered it luck you know that was a privilege I mean I wanted to drive trucks so bad that whatever it took to get in there and do it I had to wait for somebody to call in sick or not gonna be a no-show or and then I just jumped in their truck and take it so is that like do you think that’s when you found like your real love for trucks or was it like good night for them because when people asked me about like trucks and like were they like what what makes you guys have these trucks and and run these trucks this way and every truck looks like a show truck and this not I say I don’t trucks like the trucks came from my dad like you know I mean the trucking deal is 100% they came from you even your grandpa said that you know you’re your dad’s love of trucks is you know just something that just you know it’s it’s there it’s you know bred in your whatever and that’s just that was him I wasn’t necessarily grandpa but that was yeah it

was still your dad yeah give me a 1972 Mac with a five-speed transmission and 16 years old yeah go to Portland not even think about it well I said I mean I mean I’ve never spent time driving trucks and so like I mean part of me a part of like what I always say like the legacy that I’m uphold is the truck inside right so I mean we have an awesome crew that takes care of our trucks and you know great group mechanics and you know very Prescott we can get into him later but I mean ultimately like that love and truck starts and the the trucking part of our business I mean it really started with you pushing it and I make sure P that doesn’t get lost on people is that wasn’t like some newfangled idea like that’s been around I’ve been part of our business since it’s a very beginning you know somewhat it’s our business exactly and I think and that’s something I do want to touch on by just wanted people to know the roots of it like where does it come from like why do you guys

feel the need to have you know these trucks and I’m like that part of its you know our customer base part of its like just how strongly we feel the transportation is how strong of a piece of our business it is and then my dad I think his love for trucks and that’s yeah we born and raised in a scrapyard everyday you go get dirty I mean nasty dirty grind yeah and so one day you can run home grab a shower put on clean pure pants and get in the truck we’ll be gone for 12 14 hours I’m it was a treat yeah you stay clean for that long yeah especially old-school scrap yards not set of oceans and stationary shears and they’re like old-school strap where you enable cranes big magnets everything is greasy everything is dirty transmission oil from cars everything so it’s okay so now we’ll move back to the 80s so I just I just want to make sure we covered the beginning of you know Harley yeah so going into the 80s you come your mom comes on board full-time and then we buy the muffler

shop and uncle Robert goes to run the muffler shop he eventually ends up buying the muffler shop and that becomes his thing and so now the only family in the business is the two of you and Grandma and Grandpa I assume because everybody else is you know when done seven different uncle Ron went to work doing something different and everybody else is pretty much exited the business at that point yeah uncle Ron you don’t eat chose to leave the business but I think he was kind of also pushed down you know I think a lot of it pushed out by you know my dad and probably a lot of myself pretty tough to get along with yeah well it was like we said back when it’s when it’s family its business and everybody should I put food on our table but there’s not a lot of money to put a lot of food on the table you start trying to figure out you know that’s when that just adds a whole another another bank of issues stuff so I really want to really want to kind of get to the point where you guys

are making the decision that you you know you you you you’re starting to sell the scrap you’re starting to run a lot of day-to-day operations and obviously you know grandpa had a way of doing things he had a fifth sixth grade education and it got him pretty far eighth grade a lot of hustle a lot of heart a lot of just grit you know but then the two of you come along and you guys have a way that you want to see the business grow and you guys you know start doing some things so at what point do you does the growth to start happening does things start to snowball and you guys you know what’s where does that go from there starting in say when you guys went to Mountain Home and you know you started with the shorty salvaged ill and goes from 95 1995 yeah when your dad not just when he bought that yard right yeah we talked about it with dad and we knew that that’s kind of what we wanted to do so we went together and and I had befriended shorty we’ll were Britton and

became really good friends with him from going down and working for him and he had a little yard and mountain home I done that’s what I’m referring to yeah and so when we bought that then we needed somebody to go run it so then that’s what we wasn’t got Willy and moved him out of Boardman or cousin which is my cousin yeah back to injecting some more family back in the business to grow right right yep and then Kim bull at that time was I mean he drove the mountain home every day and he cleaned that yard up and made it what it is today yeah I remember that I remember I remember Kenya going back and forth about home yeah some calls oh yeah every day I Drive yeah that’s an hour each way yeah you know just to get that thing probably an hour and a half and today’s or alone yeah but the traffic it’s coming for sure so then tell me I want to like move forward a couple years and tell me how how does the relationship like form and start with schnitzer steel because that’s a pretty big

like pivotal point I believe in our company in our business and you guys how did how does that transpire how does that take place and what is it most mr. steel was looking to expand and and be able to control the scrap coming to their locations and they felt that the way best way to do that was to create limited partnerships with scrap yards and you know what do you call it they only mentioned joint ventures making thing right so they had you know people that were in the scrap that knew the scrap but and then they had you know the money to put it together to be able to buy and keep that scrap to feed their shredder and you know whatever wherever they needed it at so that just helped them create more theater yards for their basic operation so did you guys pursue Smits earnestness or pursue you what was it a mutual admiration us they came down and and and mattis and you know had some great conversation and I think they had some conversation with my dad and realized that he was ready to retire and he was kind

of out and it just then they started talking to me and we just kind of worked out a deal to where we could purchase my dad’s part and then purchased this year and the property that we had rented for our all those years that set vacant for many many years again I think at that point they eat this tongue it was a good deal I mean we we loved we loved the relationship I mean they taught us so much so who was the main players of who was the main people that you’re dealing with at that time from schnitzer you know the very original guy was Terry glue coughed and Terry had Jim Goodrich working with him and they had Elaine Goodrich Jim’s wife at that time and she was an excellent bookkeeper and she could work with your mom and didn’t say this is how they want to look at it and this is what we want to do so they just guided us down a path so from the bookkeeping side mom I mean did they provide I mean they helped you on the accounting side today I mean what did they

provide and that helped you well I think just yeah sure well yeah support yeah it’s at the beginning yeah a lot of support elaine was yeah was great she you know she had all that backgrounds that’s where she worked his first semesters in the accounting and so she knew how to set up everything you know once we took it over from grandpa we kind of tweaked it a little bit made it easier and like I said the computer to start off with with Grandpa was not you know that easy but I just kind of learned it kept going and just trying to figure it out and so Layne helped me with that and then she had obviously accountants that worked you know in dismiss her side of things and tech people and so if we ever had any problems or questions I mean the beginning that they were great to get along with cause a wanted us basically to set it up so that they could come in and see everything that we were doing and it was their way of doing it and you know it was it worked it was you know

it’s easy to say the Terry glue cough and Jim Goodrich they’re the ones that put us on the map and we would have never I don’t think would ever been anywhere close to where we’re at today not done that right yeah they stepped up I mean they helped us you know in in a lot of areas equipment areas you know accounting areas and really buying being able to buy on the commercial side of things because they set us up with a roll-off system which we didn’t really have because at the time we didn’t have the money to incorporate it in and we had the trucks that were moving the scrap obviously to the west coast but nothing to pick up large commercial you know business that we did have some but they had a roll-off system and they got a set up in that and that that definitely helped jumpstart that so a commercial situs so not only I mean I think when you talk about a like a partnership like at that point like that was a real partnership like they were invested in your business obviously right helped you grow

your business and but also like I think sometimes small businesses just need that back-end accounting help that book work that you know just hey this is how we do it is how you can stay organized this is some tax some ways you can kind of work the tax code in your advantage this is how I mean there’s a lot of things that you know bigger companies can provide to a small mom-and-pop shop that you know there’s that are super helpful so but when you talk about the roll-off system because I remember those calves over white gmc’s I mean we ran those trucks for a while I mean first thing we did is brought him in painted them because every there Schnitzer black and that’s all they wanted was a chain gym yeah because I mean those trucks blue or not we ran them we ran them for a while so my 97 when we partnered with the B and K in 2000 and I don’t know 2013 somewhere in that 12 well 13 their first truck was one of those white GOC cavalry loss right so it made it and

it was used from Schnitzer so I mean we that truck is made it it’s around and so when we talk about loss this one I always think about that Mike yeah yeah everybody gets their like start somehow and let’s kind of just back up just a tiny bit because you think about 97 was a very big year for us with expenditures 98 99 you couldn’t beg a cell we couldn’t sell steel so let then let’s talk about this so in 97 and you guys form a joint venture partnership which that sir right and it’s cut now called United metals LLC right 9m LLC is 50% owned by Roderic rotten Dubuque are 50% owned by sensor steel and when the the deal got made to partner they injected a certain amount of cash and part of that deal was they enabled you guys to buy help you buy a seer shear and go to the bank oh yeah funded well yeah right and at that point because the reason I bring that up is I was a senior talking to John Socko and he was talking about Terry glue coughed and I was like oh

this is kind of our side of story you know and Terry this is when we partnered you know our first big piece of equipment was that 700 shear that still runs today yeah yeah and we still work it every day it’s not down but after 20-something years we feel it’s been pretty good to us so when you talk about like spending a lot of money buying out your parents now you’re on the hook for a big piece of equipment which is probably the most money you ever spent on one piece of equipment ever times whatever time is multiple right because you know I think at that time what’s the Sierra shear cost in Danice at $730,000 7 on our grand plus we plus foundation plus the yard work they so snifters come in and they have you know being our partner they wanted they have environmental policies that they injected you know into the partnership as well and part of that was to cap the yard you know the shear was in and not to mention you know your safety system and or you know all that so put it in place

your safety plan and and all that so that was part of that too so with that shear we also had to spend money to you know cap the yard and you know do a lot of which is three acres four acres that three acres that yard three and a half three and a half of asphalt and concrete yeah as anybody knows not cheap right yeah so now you’re on the hook ninety-seven scrap markets pretty decent 98 comes and Terra 98 comes we get a shear delivered we started putting it together and yeah the whole time we’re putting it together the price of scrap is is tumbling yeah and then there’s a bottom and we found it and it stayed there ninety-eight until so a 98 I’m a sophomore I’m sorry I’m just I’m a junior going into my senior year in 99 and you know and I don’t people ask me what do you think about the Schnitzer you know buy a 50 percent of your parent of the United metals and what do you think about and I was like you know at that point I didn’t know all the backend

of our business I knew this described her where I was born and raised and hung out and worked and you know got paid whatever you know at the time probably more than I was worth but you ate a lot yeah but that’s just it was growing I was growing up describer I loved it but but so I didn’t I had no real recollection of the price of scrap or any of that going on when I’m 17 right years old like this is there 16 going on 17 for this it isn’t even you know across my mind but we’re 20 yeah so at that point you know I’m so I’m you guys are and I and I really I love the part this part of story just because of the fact that we went through a couple like shitty markets here recently like you know the 2009 the 2000 you know for 1314 the 2020 lately like we’ve went through a few of them 2016 was it was bad but I always tell people I’m like my parents partner was somebody borrowed a ton of money and then saw the worst crap market that they’d

ever seen yeah right yeah I go so they figured out a way and they made it work so if you’re telling me like this as bad as it is like and it seems bad and everybody’s like this is the worst where some like I’m gonna find a way to make it work you know and that’s mostly because I know of the conversations that we’ve had like they’re like you guys are liked it it’s you see it at this bad and we had a lot more look at that point so 90 80 kids scrap Marc’s terrible and 99 I graduate high school leave go to college what’s the mood in like 99 mm like what do you guys mean what’s what kept you guys like motivated to keep pushing I mean we were committed yes and you’re in college and your sister’s about ready to graduate from high school going to go to college and so yeah and we want to see that happen so yeah commitment yeah all in and that’s what I was hoping you said because plan I didn’t want to like make you say it no when people say like why

do you do it like one year when you committed I’m here like all my cards I pushed all my chips there in the middle of the table like when you’re committed there is no plan B like it’s plan a or bust like there’s no plan B Plan C and I and I agree that’s one thing I live and die by as well is plan a is like I’m committed and if whatever your hobby business whatever you’re in like if you want to be successful and nobody guarantees success but your ass better be well it’s not a nine-to-five job okay so you are in it seven days a week 24 hours a day you don’t get to take a break I mean you think you get to take a break but you’re really not because at times we would I mean we’re always talking business right so it’s not just like okay oh yeah let’s go on vacation or yeah you know what you know what did you do today well I know what we did today did you go to Disneyland or what no our kids yeah I think you guys got

to go to lagoon one summer and for whatever and I think that was just a fluke we went that was before we had taken yeah yeah we’re Ezrin like maybe grade school I just had that was our family thing that was our house yeah we get on the weekend take a camp trailer and go out then yeah I’m happy I guess I’m just happy you both say like when I asked you the question but you looked at me like that’s crazy well I’m just like why why would you do it like that was the plan and not to mention anyway if if you’re into something and you really like it you’re just you’re gonna make it work I mean you’re gonna do everything you can and make it work because you see the results around you I mean you know it’s just like we always talked about United family well we see all those people that worked for us you know they’re working hard to make sure that we get to pay the bills and so you know if you don’t put forth that effort then they’re not gonna put forth the effort as

well and so we had a you know a pretty good group of you know employees you know to just help us get over that hump and people your UPS you’re not people feed off of you enough you got your personality yeah you know if you’re walking around like the world’s coming to an end everyday then they’re likely geez should we be concerned that the works going to an end because these guys seem to feel like that you know so no that makes it that makes sense so in 99 so when does it start getting like a little bit better when does the market turn to where you’re feeling like you got I mean it’s not just absolutely tough like how long was that stretch from well I would say that you know I’m gonna say it was like 2001 oh yeah we started selling the material comfortably into the steel mill we weren’t making any money but we had a out and it was going and at that but during that particular time too we were really building on the non fair side you know that’s when we bought that excel baler right and

we maybe not shared that information with the partners at that time but I knew is the right thing to do so we found some outside funding bought the baler and this worked the non-ferrous really hard cuz you can make more money with that than you can the steel and that’s the ticket markets more markets available with that you know particular product and steel so so we were margins were better so basically even when there was no money to be putting back into the business you still found ways to find money to put back was more money it was more advantageous for us to put money back in the business that I was into our pockets we didn’t really need to take much money home yeah we had to eat make a house payment alright so that’s I think if there’s a good lesson for regardless of the industry or the business or whatever that you’re in I think that it’s I think that if you put money back into your business even if you’re borrowing money to put back into your business you’re still growing your business and you’re still at that point

you’re still betting on yourself which if I want to bet on me buddy I’m gonna bet myself absolutely that’s why we didn’t have any investments outside of our business yep exactly vested everything we had back into it so in 2001 the market starts to change a little bit like in your favor like you actually can sell material girthy around on a workforce I think sometime around 2000 2001 because I mean somewhere in that range because I remember him when I came back from from college I’d come down on breaks and stuff and that had to be like 2000 2001 is probably when he came and what he want to call on customers he had no money to offer him he offered him a been offered him his service service I’ve had that conversation a ton of times in our sales meetings I’m like and so like the Gluck alee a lot of the people and are on the sales side of our company or they deal with customers they’ve had the opportunity to deal with Greg Brown because I always say that if you think your job is hard me after the lower somebody’s

priced by $20 I said go walk into a business and offer them $0 and just say I’ll just pick up your scrap and I’ll give you a bit I go so whenever you think you have a bad least you’re still bringing them some money you know a little bit of a challenge I mean there is and he generated a lot of customers I mean he did then when we started paying our customers then it was real easy to keep them and Greg did a great job of managing that part yes I mean I owe a lot to my what I do even today to a lot of great Brown you know like just his he’s hustle his hustle and just his like he was really attention he was very like detail-oriented definitely which is super crucial when you’re handling commercial accounts because everybody’s got a bin I’ve got X amount and most owners know roughly what they’ve gotten that bin what they put in that bin material what the material is so if you’re not on it you know then you so Greg Brown is a big part of United metals big history

in my opinion success and success which you know I look back on I mean I consider a success so 2001 when the markets started going like SATs 802 so I came into work in 2004 full time June of Oh for roughly I mean maybe ended you but at that point you guys had built the United Holland building because I remember do my senior project on it call it Frank and running through the numbers and the financing and you know the build-out and all that stuff and just kind of that was my big project for my for my business degree so you guys built that building in 2004 but why did you build that building what was the reasoning behind it on the truck side because I remember you know at one point there was you know five people stuffed in a grandpa’s old office and mom’s back there and and yet jinhwan Begler you know working the scale and because you guys had started but a truck brokerage mmm so you want to go into that just hair well then we expanded the truck brokerage from there and do that where the recycling

center is at and then we girl it out of that building and that’s when I who knew we were growing out of that buildings and I decided we needed the other building and Simplot offered the property up for sale to us that had the the big grain silos on it and so it was just a deal I didn’t feel like I could pass and so once I bought it then six eight months later was able to tear the silos down and started building them so wasn’t part of the reasoning for them selling it or having a hard time selling it is because it had two big huge concrete grain silos on it and it was just gonna it was kind of cost prohibitive for some people and I think that that particular time they were just worried about their liabilities and they were trying to limit them and they knew that they would never use that one again it’s not I think that you guys are stilling they did wet in Ontario as well to have the silos down so that they didn’t have any accidents and liability as I was doing some work

for Simplot at that point a lot of work so you guys had that relationship with them so you guys just they knew hey you guys already have a scrap yard next door you guys might be at least some somewhere to start with having that conversation about who could buy it and knock it down and deal with it right so when you guys built that that facility it was to kind of move and build out the truck brokerage right and obviously have a truck shop you know legit tube a truck shop that you could work on the trucks at that point how many trucks like how many semi how many semi trucks were in the fleet at that time local and over the road probably nine yes I say eight or eight or nine yeah so counting our roll off trucks Bindra no just a long haul okay right cuz I think we had like three well we didn’t merge the two businesses together until later right okay sisters didn’t want nothing to do with United Holly and so we always just kept that as the whole other entity so what your what and I’ve

had this conversation before with various people but when you guys partnering with since in 1987 they weren’t a bubbly traded company no right they’re a privately held company right so when you guys develop this relationship and everything else think you weren’t planning on being partnered with a publicly traded company traded on the Nasdaq you know I mean I don’t know that that would have made a lot of stuff different but I know it made them when you’re privately-held they’re a lot more flexible they can do a lot well that’s why they could do all they could do to do it exactly it was do more venture partner they took on right time not the only joint venture yeah more acquisitions yes sir they had several yeah so and they made several later as well yeah they kept doing it yeah going into like I remember going to oh four at seven eight I mean they they’ve been with double decides their business like almost what felt like overnight there for a while right um when the end when it started really heat up the scrap market sorted really good yeah it was 708

they were yeah they were really an acquisition mode from like Oh 408 they really got after it so I hope you remember what year they went they became a publicly traded company and did I guess when they I guess it did it ever affect you guys when when when they went became fully Jake I mean it took matters it really did it took years for toasty didn’t fill the initial because the player the same players were still there you know they they weren’t yeah so when did you guys start changing personnel the effect of the partnership like the dynamics have changed as far as now even from like a tax and accounting standpoint you know because you’re dealing with somebody who is very you know public shareholder driven and versus you know look a small small business mentality where depreciation isn’t a bad thing and not making a ton of money on the bottom line isn’t a bad thing when did you guys start filling that that change when they thought they could do a better job of running our business than they get there we could they felt that they were you know

better at everything and everyone knew they had no was it because there because it was a regime change right personnel yes yeah they got rid of all them well they know all the good scrap guys and they replaced them with bean counters yeah which makes sense I got that’s kind of what I was kind of trying to figure out when that probably Oh eight I’m gonna say right in there just that just just because of um when we started you know oh eight was a good year for us so we were purchasing property you know reinvesting in other properties and so and I think right in there oh eight oh nine maybe it’s one there but that’s when the load nines when the market got real tough right right because he went from but I think their fathers who trade it was right in that area somewhere okay yeah I think I think they became friendlier than that somewhere in there but tonight but I remember it but I remember that being like a big like dynamic like a big shift so I when I came to work in 2004 full-time I remember

like it oh five we bought our first pipe yard over there on the airport I know 506 somewhere in that range if I recall cousin we we started building up the pipe side of our business which doesn’t get a lot of love you know that we don’t vocalize it a lot but it’s a big piece of our business right now and as we’ve grown in over the years but we at when we went into oh seven six we bought we purchased a Gooding facility good in Idaho I think that was our third our third yard so at that point we had Mountain home and called well and good in Idaho right and I remember the scrapped pricey and starting to go up and you know and feeling like oh I mean oh four oh six oh seven was a good run especially then they go into Hawaii and I remember dad saying to me like this don’t last forever like what you’re in the middle of is like it’s like almost unprecedented like I’ve never been in the middle of it and so enjoy it while you can and then the next year was

better and then next year it was better like and now I remember being like god this business is pretty it’s pretty easy like it’s not that difficult right and so it was it and then oh eight I got married in Oh 8 and I remember this is why it’s so easy to remember for me to remember when the scrap market to like I can remember because I remember I got married in July August is great September is starting to get soft and then October was terrible I remember being like from 6-7 are hired to utter no higher being like what the hell happened I think we have so much inventory yeah which we did good our company one of the things that I always say that saved our bacon a lot and that was we had shipped aggressively and this goes all the way back to having your own trucking company is we have the ability even though we had a ridiculous amount of iron move that that year that oh eight because of us having our own trucks and truck availability and being very tight it was feel don’t want to haul

scrap at that point we were loading 27 rail cars a month we’re ordering 30 just to get 18 to 20 and but our ability to move scrap with trucks was such a huge advantage for us it still is like we still used that to our advantage to move material but I think that was the net high at that point became such a big part of our business because we could move in a hurry as many tons as we could buy because I definitely think you could buy about as many times as you want it because no it was easy to it was it was coming to the door and we’re I think and this people say like when I talk about our growth of our business we didn’t buy any scrap yards any new food we didn’t had any new facilities from 2006 until 2011 end of 11 is when we bought this facility so we didn’t we basically took the money that we made in those really good years and right we didn’t buy a bunch of BS we didn’t buy a bunch of third fourth fifth homes and a bunch of that

we couldn’t use equipment we basically waited until them we could afford a yard in Boise Idaho we found this piece of property which is where we’re in now and our podcast room and we put the money we made plus some and back into the business which i think is like the central theme of like you guys I mean y-you have what you have and why we build what we built is because we put it right back into what we know right I’m never wrong no do you guys see anything see it different no every piece of property that we’ve purchased has been you know for the business side whether it be the scrap or the hauling or pipe you know it’s never never been anything but and so you talk about the pipe you just really touched on it just a little bit but how many pipe yards do we have now versus when we started out with just one and we started out with that one when we acquired the yard that we were scrapping in in 82 1982 grandpa had his first open-heart surgery and yeah so we were kind

of limited to that place a point to scramble to find someplace to have the scrapyard and guy Loftus who owned the pipe yard right across from where we were at and basically got told to move offered up his piece of property which he had the pipe company on so that’s how we got into the pipe business so first day but same way my John knopfler business yeah but that can’t touch on that too of it but Robert you know dad’s brother and um yeah his wife ran the pipe yard out of this cobble yard scrap yard yeah yeah was sold pipe at the same time we were buying scrap same office so there was a lot of people in that office doing multiple jobs so I always like refer back you know when we did our like quarterly manager’s meeting you know a couple years ago I always said like be greedy when everybody else is fearful but being fearful when everybody else is being greedy so like in that run from those 6:08 you know where we didn’t add any scrap yards we didn’t and we had an equipment we invested back

in our business we definitely bought equipment and a lot of that was for tax purposes but also just to grow we had the the cash ability and so we that’s what we did but we kind of waited until everything was kind of dying down and then not as many people were really interested in buying commercial property or at building their scrap business out and I think that was kind of one of the form of the first signs when everything was really getting pretty rough that we knew like there someday there might be an opportunity for us to to buy back the business you know I mean just because you know that was one sensor was really the head really invested heavily in their business and run up which is what public traded companies do when it’s hot they buy and they build valuation and it is what it is by us just kind of keeping our car our cards close to our vest investing back in our business investment back in ourselves that’s kind of what it started to enable us to get to the point you know where we could you know have

potential to be 100 percent so family owned business again so 2011 we buy this property we build out our Boise facility and at this point now like I’m I’m fully integrated into the business and we’re running it you know with our partners concerned and going full-tilt and 2013 is when we buy and we do the Twin Falls yard right somewhere in that range I think right because it because initially we were looking further east we were gonna go east Pocatello then the band approached us hey we got this property it’s been Falls it might be a good fit you know yeah and then you know we go to we bison like a couple of his property and move on but I really want to get into in 2016 is when good husband in 2016 is when the market like started to falter again and got pretty shitty like 2000 but this one we’re in 2000 and of 809 it went from 600 to zero and then a hundred for awhile like that 2015-16 was like death by a thousand cuts like it was like every month was ten 525 down down down

I just felt like at some point you’re like just amputate the leg like let’s move and I think that was kind of when the our partnership with Schnitzer felt like there was you know it had reached its climax like if it had we had run its course I will say this though and I really want to make sure when we when we had the opportunity to buy sensor out we had built a really good relationship with my curse man we had built a really good relationship with Mike Henderson and who is president of well get the credit where credit’s due you built a relationship I mean I had a little bit of a relationship with Mike Kurtzman but Mike Hersman you know I mean he was pretty new guy for me yeah I think he started with them in nine or ten someone that it was kind of his first years wish netsertive when it was probably really crap because he came from DJJ and it was you that came along and made the relationship with Anderson and and the rest of them because you can see that my bullheaded was the discus what

has been – something yeah and when and when I when I met you know not my dealings with schnitzer you know I didn’t I didn’t start the partnership in 97 right I didn’t Jim goodrich’s and Jerry glucose our Terry glucose and foo odds I mean that those were your relationships and and I just piggy back to those relationships that you had made and and and you know they got you pretty far and then you got them pretty far and it was I really you know was a good relationship so there was like a gap in there kind of that middle regime where they kind of return over you know kind of mrb managers and they were just kind of trying to find their way and then when Kurtzman came along and Henderson you know kind of came along there was a good opportunity for us to really form that relationship where they could see where they want to drive their business and they could see where we were trying to go with our business and the way I would this is the way I see it is it felt like there is an opportunity for

us to both see where each other was there was a V in the road and they want to go a certain way and we want to go a certain way and we just they gave us the opportunity to go our way and we gave them the opportunity to go their way and we we parted amicably and to this day you know we have a great relationship with Schnitzer you know and a lot of that’s because there’s a lot of give-and-take by both sides I thought it’s a good relationship if it’s a good partnership then there’s always going to be give-and-take and there’s a lot of years when yeah and they see the potential you know as far as our company goes they see you know what we did before they see what you’re doing now and you know there’s some scrap people you know that are still there that they they appreciate that they know you know the product that they’re gonna get is what you tell them you’re gonna you know get them in so some of that goes a long way and I think just the history you

know of our company you know is kind of speaks for itself whether it be with them partnered up or just on her own you know yeah well I think the whether it’s necessary or anybody else I think that people recognize I always say like that old sanic game recognizes game like when you when you’re good at what you do you if you’re smart you recognize other people that are good at what they do like you’re just say hey like and whether it’s the same industry or not you’re just like hey that guy’s a great bass fisherman like he’s just really good at what he does right oh my creole but you know then when it’s within your own industry because you know what it takes to build something and do something you’re like hey that guy give him props like that doesn’t happen overnight then you just walk in and we can walk in with ten million dollars and buy a few yards and buy some equipment but it takes years and a lot of grind and a lot of like investment back in your business to get to build a real business where

you have a solid customer base and you have solid vendors and solid consumers and solid you know pwe teammates and I think for you that’s a tough tough thing to just cultivate in a year yeah okay how much money yeah like it’s years of being invested so 2016 ish like you guys I would say 2016 was kind of like the last year you guys kind of were retired ish right I mean uh and now to this day I still go hey what do you like what do you think about this what do you think about that I always ask you questions and you still keep an eye on the books because I think you might you’ll be 95 and so I don’t worry about that okay I always have an extra extra set of eyes on the back end yeah well you got a good accountant yeah so I mean I spent more time around him that do my way that’s why I said that makes that relationship if you guys could go back like any if you could go back and change anything like do anything like a little bit different would you

I wouldn’t shut the brokerage down the trucking brokerage right yeah I would it took our l’s that’d be really fun to see where that would be today yeah that’s one like that’s one of my things I look back on and I’d say and I think part of me that was just my as young like inexperienced and just saying like the because when you when you go from oh my star del for 208 and every year you win and all you do is win and then the losses start coming a losses start piling up and you’re just not used to taking losses I think part of me when like I look back on it if I could change it I would say yeah I think that as long as we felt like comfortable with you know the finance the financial side of it which I think we would have been but you know when you’re you and you’re not used to seeing any red and you only used to seeing green and then you start seeing a lot of red coming down the line that’s a big like learning curve and I take that to

this day when we see a 1516 market and when we see a 2020 kovat market and I feel those ELLs coming I didn’t I don’t get even myself I don’t get as nervous as I once used to be because I’ve seen that hell’s and I think that like that experience that you’ve had previously where you got to see the else and you figured out a way to weather that those those ELLs and I had I think that was like even for me I didn’t know I didn’t know how to what to think about them I don’t know how to if were they ever get it right what I know and I look back on that and I said yeah like that’s a lot of that’s on me because I I hadn’t seen those kind of ELLs and I didn’t see him rack up that quick yeah respond yeah make better decisions yeah and some day I told you about the idea and about fired up the brokerage again and flat I’m especially on the flatbed side just because I think that there’s we do so much flatland work I think there’s a lot of

potential how about you would you is anything that he would change do different yeah maybe do a little bit more teaching of you know my job so I didn’t take it all on you know I share that knowledge with somebody that could have helped with the county and you then you would have had a couple other I you know a set of eyes looking at what you’re looking at and help make a little bit maybe better decisions you know whereas we just kind of took it off on ourselves you know just because sometimes you don’t want to share all that financial information you know so that’s kind of a tough tough call you know it was even tough for me to like give up what I was doing to Brian let’s say just you know just say okay yeah I trust you but can you do it the way I did it do you understand you know the ramifications and you know so yeah I think going back I think yeah we should have you know got at least a couple other people you know involved in yeah sort of teaching them you know

and it is it’s a it’s a trust thing you know to you know because that’s your livelihood that’s your family’s livelihood and do you have much trust you know do you put out there for somebody else it’s so hard to grow your business if you can’t like trust put good people in people position do you know and I always said that was one thing that that dad and you were able to do is you guys always had found good people that like interject into the business you know we talked about the guys like the King bowls that the Greg Browns the Jim Wynn burglars the you know those guys that I remember and then I sure I know there’s more but like those guys that weren’t are part of our family or anything like that but they were super good for our business because a you could trust them be you know they were really team oriented very you know driven to be successful but they may not have been the guys that ran wanted to own their own business per se but they were they were you know very good you know whatever

they did and I think part of you know Stetzer the partnership what they brought to the table too was the fact that checks and balances you know how do you you know have people accountable you know for certain things going on and that was a lot of like laying goodrich I mean she would say okay you know here’s how you can check this out make sure that you know what you say you got is actually what you got or what these people are saying that they brought in is actually what they brought in and you know cameras became a thing and you know just going over the books and we can like I said just having another set of eyes and I I think hold people accountable you know so that they know yeah you trust them but you’re also you know gonna make sure you know that their work is reputable yeah yeah I think that was just a good thing on Spencer’s part you know first starting out to it just helped us helped us to grow because you grow too fast and money can get away from you really quick you

know get away money can get away and so if you don’t have checks and balances and I think that was just that was a good part you know of schnitzer learning curve for us so and I have two more questions no I’ll give each of you guys to answer but so the scrap industry the scrap business like like what’s the big takeaway for you guys I mean what’s what’s the good to me I don’t know I look back and there was a lot of I would do different when I think back about the stuff I would change and maybe do a little bit differently but like what like is there something you’re the most proud of there’s something that like that when you think about the scrap industry as a whole that really like puts a smile on your face when you think back on like your career like did really something you enjoyed I mean it’s something I mean what do you think when you think about the scrap business you guys lived a life of being in the scrap business thing what do you think about – well I had a high school

diploma and I’ve heard it really wasn’t very good in high school I mean where else is a guy going to get an education and get a business like I’ve got it I wasn’t for described as a scrap business I mean I think that anybody could do it and I mean maybe not so much today but in my time I mean it’s all you had to do is just get out there and hustle get it done there’s a lot of guys got out there and hustled and they got it done and like you had some really good opportunities and you know dad did a great job of starting the business I mean it was terrible when we bought it because we just had a big a lot of debt but a lot of that debt was turbaned by me so do you think that like rings true for like people out there today like there’s a lot of opportunity out there we’ve not even described business but it’s just if if you just have it like some hustle and you just have some walk to do it like there’s still that those opportunities are out

there right like it’s not and those didn’t go away in 1974 know there’s this no security blanket yeah you know you gotta give up on the idea making sure you have a security blanket you gotta go all in maddy and you got to stay after ya for a long time yeah you’re not gonna get it done in 10 years I’m gonna get it done 20 years yes stay after how about you scrap when you think about like the industry and the business and I think what would you like about it I wouldn’t you think back about it what’s your well I just think about you know as far as being the family business and I just remember I think it was Shannon Shannon was first born of course your grandmom was working in the office and and Shannon your sister was what four or five weeks old and and grandpa said well you know you’re okay you don’t have to come back to work right away you know and that was before you know all these other you know acts came about where you have maternity leave and yada yada yada so I took

Janet with me and I would nurse her you know while I was working you know and it’s like yeah I’m one of those things one of the customers come in and he was an older gentleman and just a really nice guy and he goes oh honey don’t worry about it because I’ve seen it all in a second Shannon’s over there crying and it’s like oh my god nursers she’s hungry but you know you don’t have those opportunities in let’s say a corporate office or anything like well you do nowadays because they have built you know we’re gonna go and do that but back then no you know so I just think that the opportunity to be able to be family and still have your family close is yeah it’s everything yeah who didn’t greatest if Grampa get to see what the business is you could watch you do what you do every day yeah because I know you guys like to you know talk business and in the stock market and all that you know trading and all that so yeah would be great so when I think back like when I was growing

up and we lived close enough to the yard that I could ride my bike down on this ground Gary and then I remember like the evolution of being able grab my bike down the scrapyard get to quarters go talk to RB or go to envious Shasta soda and hang out my sister and ran our bikes back home and then just killing time this summer and then I remember you know going down on Saturdays in Washington college football and grandpa’s office because he had the TV that had you know first it was cartoons and then it was college football when I started getting more into sports and I remember those Saturdays and I remember that because that’s what you guys were on Saturday saying do you guys want to work every Saturday so that’s what we went and then so when I think about you know the evolution of that then being able to work on Saturdays and us going to eat breakfast you know for for work John Taylor and Kenny bowl and yourself and you know I was able to go in and order finger steaks and a soda and everything at 6:30

a.m. before work like I think about all that stuff and I think about my kids I got two boys well that’s how you got them that’s how I got guys motivated to put their 60th hour in yeah yeah on a Saturday 60 at the 70th hour yeah so I think we got our breakfast I think about your grandkids my kids and I say do you guys want to see them in the scrap business do you have any desire to see him I do when do you guys think that far ahead cuz I do I see I think that far ahead but I don’t I I want them to do what they want to do well that was our philosophy we we didn’t know you know as far as we’re you guys wouldn’t end up and so that wasn’t you know we didn’t push that on you you knew the life it was you led the life just like we did so it wasn’t something that you know we said well you have to you know once we’re gone you know once we retire here it’s yours or you have to make this go

I don’t think that was ever I don’t think we ever did that but it was just something that um it was cool the see happen especially when you you know when you decided yeah you know that was something that you really you know wanted to to see happen but as far as you know your kids our grandkids I would think it would be a great opportunity but I don’t think I would something that I would want to say you have to do it because then it becomes you know it doesn’t become a passion it becomes a job and yeah I don’t think you jobs don’t last no they don’t passions last yeah it’s alright you can make in that’s so but I don’t know yeah I would like to see it happen thank ya how are you dead do you know I’ve got mixed emotions about it I mean I really do I’d love to see him in this crab business well me if that’s what they wanted to do if that’s really what they wanted to do then I thought to see him doing it yeah I hope they have the luxury to

do it yeah yeah get to pick and choose yeah yeah the option yeah absolutely my I wanted to get out of school and go to work in the office someplace and learn describe business I’d like to see your have the opportunity the opportunities open anthony’s there and yeah absolutely Braxton Riker any of them whatever they want to do I mean I just I’m all Busboys lling them be a survivors for a sublime direction well I love you guys I want to say I appreciate you thanks for sitting down and I know it took some like convincing but it’s C’s not that painful I mean just kind of like to rehash history the best that we can all remember because every day is a new day and thank you for being involved and giving me a shot to do what I love to do every day I got to sit here do podcasts amongst other things all the red stuff yeah but I love it I wouldn’t have any I wouldn’t have it any other way love you too baby great job that good thing yeah yeah from you guys so I’m not yeah a

place by me doing a great job buddy cheers Cheers you you