foreign welcome to a scrap life a podcast solely focus on the hustlers grinders operators and business owners who live and breathe the scrap metal industry every day we are the original recyclers no suits required just guts and hard work here is your host brett eckhart in this episode i sit down with william inman of cavs also known as bill one of the real class acts of our industry he usually keeps a pretty low profile but i was able to talk him into sitting down with me on his last trip out to idaho to see his family there aren’t many people more knowledgeable about scrap than bill so it’s always fun to sit down and bs with a guy who knows the players in the industry and the actual material just as well hope you enjoy and go take a listen welcome mr inman william bill inman finally got you back to idaho and man i’m so happy to be able to sit down with you drinking out of here here idaho beer and recoil shoot the and talk about scrap and i consider you a friend we we do a lot of business

together when the opportunities make sense for both of us so it’s i mean probably one of the coolest things about my job is i guess i’m at the point that i get it pick and choose who i want to do business isn’t that nice yeah and it’s and there’s always at the point where you you still do business with some people a little tougher to do business with but i’ve always appreciated that you know being able to with you hang out and have a good time top scrap uh you know honest price honest uh material i mean never had any issues with anything coming from united i haven’t had a bunch of claims yet okay so everything’s been uh so far i don’t projected to see that i mean we’ve been doing business now what about seven years yep pretty close to it uh trading as much as we can when the time is right yeah there’s never any pressure uh to do the business no uh you you sell when you need to sell and i buy when you need me to buy and it makes sense you guys are pretty much i

mean you guys are pretty much always in the market it feels like i mean there’s been some times when the market’s been slow and it’s it’s never been me ever having to beg you to do business and i you know i would i would think that some of that’s because we make a good product but b is because you guys do enough business that you’re kind of always in the market that would be my i think it’s both you know um there’s times when uh when you know it doesn’t fit the production but uh you know when you know we’re here to support those that support us yeah so there’s times when you know i’m buying material from you that we’re sitting on for two three months yeah you know but that’s okay i mean you know i mean that’s we’re here to support those that have supported us in the ups the downs and that’s just part of you know doing the business that you have to be there for your suppliers and business 101 like take care of people that take care of you and then they hopefully they reciprocate it and

they recognize it and it’s it’s good i mean it is the commodities business so generally speaking if you’re in the scrap business or sometimes when your flows are more and sometimes when they’re less but you’re always producing product right so you’re always making sure you have good homes for your interior like we were talking about earlier yeah i mean we’re producing that chlorine-free uh aluminum out in oakland yeah and uh you know i mean it what we put into our furnace matters and uh there’s no hidden you know surprises in united’s metal and you know what i’ve you know what i can appreciate and i think that from your guys’s standpoint you can see where i mean everything’s going green slash environmentally friendly i mean and i i think that your guys’s niche on the chlorine-free aluminum is like to me feels like it’s in like the infant stages like it feels like your guys are carving out that niche and it just starts with just kind of chipping away at it and then i i believe that that that’s going to be a standard and if it’s not a standard then

it’s going to be you know considerably more valuable to the right companies and as people try and go more green more economically more environmentally friendly i can’t help but think that that’s going to suit you guys well in the next two to 20 30 40 years agreed and you know there’s it’s it’s a long history of i mean we were for this process cass was green before it was green yeah and it was a um a health decision originally for the safety of our guys and the community around us you know when you have chlorine gas the kill radius depending on the size of the tank could be one two three mile kill radius yeah i mean you’ve seen some companies i don’t need to name them but they had a just a small tank of pressurized chlorine gas that ended up killing one of their employees because it you know popped off the top and i mean it’s supposed to show you how nasty of a chemical it is yeah you know yeah and and two then it turns into the environmental aspect all of our by-product our dross and everything that

comes from our furnace doesn’t have any the fluxes or the chlorine so it doesn’t go to the landfill so we’re you know we’re bypassing the landfill with our our byproduct from the furnace so it just it’s it really is a full cycle yeah back into aluminum which essentially just means you have to be a little more picky about what you put in your furnace right correct yeah you can’t just absolutely and that’s what it really comes down to is you guys are you’re mixed and you just have to be a little more picky about it master chefs i mean our our our uh aluminum manufacturing team i mean they do such a great job seven days a week 24 hours a day just they’re they’re they’re a chef they’re taking this they’re taking that we’re using you know more pure aluminum um reusing primary and you know yes it’s a little more expensive but in the the turn and you know of the environment the health aspect it’s worth it for us to have that expense interesting so give me like let’s go all the way back like let’s i’m like this the podcast

is a scrap life and so it’s all about like to me i mean it’s it’s people that i’ve met throughout the years in the scrap business i mean because that’s where i grew up that’s what i know i don’t know a whole lot much a whole lot more than that um how did you get into the scrap business where’d you start give me like the background the history of the of you 23 years ago and the only way i can remember that is because my son’s 23. when he was an infant i started working at a very small mom-and-pop north richmond california not one of the more desirable areas was more of a cans plastic and glass and did non-ferrous so were you living down there or what was the i commuted uh my father was working close to there my father is a welder by trade because working close to this facility and did some side work for him and uh when they he worked for a hazardous disposal company and he welded on their boxes and he sold the boxes to the owner at the time and the owner

at the time said hey i’m looking for a young guy to come down and help me manage my business yeah so yeah here i go coming knocking hey you know i was a tow truck driver at the time okay uh you know i i was already five four years into driving a tow truck aaa uh you know doing that did you like driving tow truck i loved it man yeah yeah it was fun so we we we’re part of the tow association over here and so a lot of our customers are you know toe toe owners you know to operators and those guys talk about the toe business like we talk about scrap is yes like they say once it’s in your blood yeah like you’re you’ll always be oh yeah they said it’s so hard to get out of the toe business just like we say like once the scraps in your blood like you’re not getting out like you’re in the last company i worked for it was hilarious when i was leaving the owner and i’m still friends with him to this day and good family friends and he says you’ll

be back in six months just like we’d say to scrap guys yeah yeah and uh and sure as you know it it went i wanted more money and so i was six months later driving the service truck doing the lockouts the flat tires the jump starts after i got off from working at the scrapyard going over there nights and weekends to do it but uh but then it you know slowly when it went away but yeah so i i went over and you know got the job in in richmond and and it was a a great company small um primarily focused on the cans plastic in glass i mean all redemptions redemption stuff yeah uh they call it crv in california california redemption and but we did non-ferrous and and did uh you know a fair amount of copper a fair amount of aluminum and you know when you’re a smaller dealer you smell you sell your scrap to the larger dealers in the area and of course at that time cass aka custom alloy was where you sold your aluminum to i mean and then another you know local guy is where

you sold your copper to so there was the copper king and the aluminum king ciao soprisio the aluminum king yeah so uh you know um was doing that and and you know i thought you know we’re big time you know we’re shipping you know 20 30 40 000 you know pounds a week over to here into there yeah and uh you know after 10 years you know of doing that six days a week you know um it just uh came time to expand change and man going into the you know i went to chow and said you know i’m gonna be leaving you know want to hire me yeah come here on monday pretty much started that monday so that would be if you if it was 23 years ago when you started you and you were there for 10 13 years ago 13 years ago yeah this is my 14th year at cass okay um and at that time just before that edward kangader who is now our ceo came on board cass um he’s got a year and a half ahead of me okay uh with the company and uh when you

started cass what’d you what’d you do like what was your original just a buyer okay yeah yeah buyer just because you knew the of the area kind of you know realistically you going from um you know basically public trade people bringing it to you you know at the last place i was you know when i left there was like 20 guys yeah managing that you know i did paid the customers made the prices you know i managed the deliveries i mean roll off boxes i mean it wasn’t you know so i had a a good under i mean hey i was working this year you know i mean the little wire stripper i mean i mean first six months i was in the warehouse you know doing all of that working all the machines and my like just my observation and i i could be partial because i’m from a small operation but when you work at a for a smaller operation with and you work the front desk and you’re buying off the scale and you’re buying the retail customers with 10 pounds of copper wire and five pounds of aluminum cans and

three pounds of red brass and like you i think that is a true education like it’s it’s about as full of as an educate full of education as you’re gonna get in the scrap business yeah because you’re working at scale you’re working the computer you’re working the purchasing software you’re dealing with customers you’re answering phones your trucks are getting trucks are coming in trucks are going out and i was just having this conversation with somebody earlier today and i said if you want to learn our business the best place to start is at that scale at the scale and and and in a small business like not just at a scale like if you’re a scale let’s say a large publicly traded company and you just have 500 loads of car bodies a day yeah like you’re not that yeah that’s just a weight that’s just weighing and yeah you’re going to teach me how to weigh and pay and track but if you really want to understand like the nitty-gritty about the scrap business doing what you did for 10 years working at the small business and having to do the payables

receivables buy sell yeah truck pricing price yeah i mean it’s all i mean you’re getting just like you’re that truly are the swiss army knife yeah and scrap business because you get a little bit everything i agree i mean you know that’s why i’m i’m fortunate that i did go through that yeah and customer relations i mean you know i learned from a guy great lester finkel which was lakeside in oakland he was the copper king and he says listen the guy that comes in with five pounds you treat him the same that the guy that comes in with five thousand pounds fifty thousand pounds of copper because you never know that one day he’s going to come across 5 000 pounds yeah and your price may not be the best but since you treated him with respect yeah and as a human being he’s going to come to you and i just latched on to that and i you know i’m a people person yeah i can with the rest of them but but i treat everybody the same with the mutual respect that i want to be treated which is good business

lesson for any industry like whether you’re in the scrap business or whatever but if you can do that you’re right then it but but if you can do that and you learn that early that and i and i tell this to you know to people all the time like just because a guy rolls in with a shitty pickup and you know a ton of iron in his truck i said that guy especially in our world over here where it’s really it’s heavy ag and you know you just never know like that guy could be a millionaire with with 500 ton on his property but he just needed to get that stuff to the scrap yard and clean out his pickup oh yeah but you never know and here’s the thing you can’t you treat that guy just like you would the guy that brings in a semi load of iron or a semi-loaded copper wire those guys you treat them all with mutual respect and i promise you they’ll pay dividends yeah yeah it’s it’s for me you know like even now there’s peddlers that come into the yard at cass that you

used to come in to the old place yeah that i was at i’ve known these guys 20 years and hey billy hey you know and you know i mean i went from being billy you know there to bill to you know william i mean that’s that’s what do you prefer you know i mean you know it to me you know my wife calls me billy my parents call me billy uh friends bill you know work and it’s william you know i mean it’s just you know i mean but you know when you’re getting older they call you william yeah you know i’m like you know yeah right you know like i was you know my son you know he’s he’s a junior and uh he’s will you know to his friends he’s will but you know to me he’s william he’s never been a bill or a billy which you know which is great by me because then my wife can yell at me you know and stuff yeah you know he doesn’t he doesn’t like us yeah you’re talking about me yeah exactly yeah yeah so but uh yeah and um so going

through all of that with i i i still see these guys 20 years later you know and a lot of these guys they’ve put you know i had one customer had 13 daughters wow 13 daughters had four houses in a row in richmond and i’m like how did you know he goes yeah but you know like 13 daughters like yeah my we wanted a boy we wanted a boy but he put all of them through college he’s now got like 49 grandkids started getting the boys that he always wanted but i mean you know i mean these guys are the guys that are cleaning up our streets yeah you know out in our area i mean they’re going on cleaning up the farms cleaning up the streets people’s backyards all of these things and he made a living off of haul and scrap yeah i mean when i first started i’m like you know people bring in these brass you know candle holders and this brass and that oh yeah oh man i’m telling you i must have had 500 pounds of brass things that i would bring home and my wife am i

what the hell are you doing i’m like you see the sticker on this thing yeah it says 35 dollars i said i only paid a dollar 25. yeah but what are you going to do with it yeah i don’t know yet it’s good i don’t know yet but you know and then you know maybe end up taking it back god the things that you you know see that come through and you know that’s that’s wasted and you know i mean the united states is uh we’re definitely at wasteful yeah we definitely generate a lot of scrap which for you and i in our industry that we’re in like i’m not complaining no no i’m in scrap business but you when you get when you travel when you get outside the country and you look around you’re like yeah we definitely consume yeah we’re a consuming nation we definitely are so you go from go from that start with you know and start and you know i mean the education and the daily um having child there as a mentor to teach me aluminum yeah and and scrap business basically i mean i went from

you know just you know a mom and pop to you know and it’s still a mom and pop but in my eyes uh a full corporation yeah um and an actual well-oiled machine and um the knowledge that chao has and i have only learned this much from that man i mean yeah he is made me what i am today you know and and the knowledge that i have i mean you know educated me on everything that that i am today i always my my thing is i always and i’ve said this in a probably a bunch of podcasts i’ve said to i say to people all the time is i’m always on the hunt for smart people right because i want to put myself around smart people and just hope that a tenth of it rubs off on me right right so it’s like for you to say that about chow obviously like a you have a ton of respect for him but b i mean he’s taught you a lot and i think that any time in life that you can put yourself around and smart people is is is one thing

but also just good people like and that’s what we try and do even with our business and i’m sure you guys do with yours is you want to surround your business with people that a care about your business right they want you to be successful because if you’re successful they’re successful correct and then obviously people that are smart that you you can hope that some of that you’re thick schooled like me you just hope that some of it like works its way through you know and you’re like oh okay i’ll pick up on that or i couldn’t be i mean right now the team that we have i mean it is a pleasure to go to work every day with all of these people i mean from the accounts receivable accounts payable to the waymaster to the truck driver to the guy that drives the street sweeper yeah i mean he takes pride in cleaning up our streets on a day i mean just everybody there is i mean any you know you know looking back at it we’ve got guys that have been there 35 40 years well the good thing about you

like what i what i appreciate and i’ve always appreciated about you is that you’ve done all the jobs yeah like the the best people that you run into that you know as far as i say best is i’m i’m more like referring to the people that are the most knowledgeable about the scrap business the scrap trade are the people that have got their hands dirty and they understand they may not have been the best guy at cutting iron with the torch they may have been the best guy you know run a mobile shear or a wire stripper but they’ve done all the jobs and so they kind of understand like the battle that that guy is fighting every day right and then so they have it it just gives you more respect hard that job that job is so you’re kind of just like the guy out there is treating sweeping the streets you’re like man that’s that’s not an easy job right but he takes pride in it he’s good at it hey okay we now have a street sweeper but at first that guy was out there with a broom yeah and

a shovel and sweeping the streets every day and i’m telling you you get that we got that guy i mean edward our ceo i i i love it when we designed and wanted said you know let’s get the guy a street get him a cab yeah that’s cool get him a cab let’s get him this and that i mean i’ve posted some you know and i you’re active on social media and i’m not as much and i’m slowly working into it uh maybe it’s my age you know you know but uh but one one of my first post was of that guy yeah because he’s just happy he’s doing the doing doing his part yeah and and marcelino that guy is just always smiling happy rain or shine doesn’t matter just doing his job happy and he enjoys it and you know we have gotten you know our team to everybody enjoys their part yeah and we all with an open mind look at okay how can we help him improve how can we help him improve what can i do to make it better for you and everybody’s having this open mind of

of a team yeah you know and i didn’t experience that in my past job and you know the leadership that um our you know our ceo has brought he brought a different perspective of business he’s well he’s not new now but he was new to the scrap business he came from the you know garment you know clothing fashion and a more delicate business but he looked at everything through our company environmentally and you know we’re gonna fix that we’re gonna fix that and he’s created partnerships with some amazing equipment manufacturers you know you all sierra yeah you know the bear you know i mean just you know all of these and and the distributors of them and he looked at all of these things as how can i get someone that’s going to give me quality material but also provide the service and you know and it’s just it’s been it’s been really really great working with that aspect as before trying to find like a team approach a team approach team approach internally and externally yeah with your with your you know your consumables the your consumers you’re part of my team yeah

you’re part of my team i view that i view it that way yeah and and and you know and yes we’re also friends yeah you know we built a friendship behind it i mean it it doesn’t hurt that my parents live you know 45 that’s why we’ve got you conned into uh yeah you know without that i mean with my parents you know living close and and when i fly in i mean how far are you from the airport yeah five minutes yeah yeah so you know five minutes it’s worked well um yeah it’s very good and and uh you know and and so now you know 13 years later i’m the commercial purchasing manager i’ve got some great people and i don’t i don’t even say underneath me because they’re not underneath me they’re part of my team you know uh if they don’t work for me i work for them yep yeah you know we’ve got once you learn that like once people learn that in my book once you learn that you work for all your guys yeah then you’re you’ll you’ll be successful and if you ever if you take

that approach and and i’ve said i’ve said that a hundred times to all our guys i’m like you don’t work for me like i work for you what do you need let’s go right like what do you need to do to be better at your job or to raise raise the bar the next level or what do you need to like what obstacles do you need cleared i always said i’m like the chief obstacle remover like right give me up like i’m just out here sweeping trying to give you runway yeah you’ll do your job edward same way you know i mean um you know it provides us with all the tools necessary for us to succeed and excel at what we’re doing yeah i mean it’s and it’s and it’s been it’s been a pleasure it really has i mean i don’t even i don’t even look at it as work is it tough living in california how’s ever you know what you know i mean is california tough i mean i’m from idaho on you know it is coveted season right now yeah um but uh i i gotta tell you i

live 22 miles from the office and and it’s inland 22 miles mind you um 14 miles to get off at the exit for me to drive into town and um pre-covet that would be an hour and a half to two hours to get home wow 30 to 45 minutes now so do you see that coming back like more more people work from home maybe not coming in a lot of people are working for him we’re in the tech you know tech you know capital of the world basically and a lot of these people are working from home and you know and and and that’s great if they can do their job from home that’s even better better for you better better from my community standpoint yeah if that’s uh yeah true and um and but yes living in california it it it is tough okay it is um it’s expensive that you know we’ve had expensive environmental yeah you know i mean they’re they’re very tough um the regulators are tough i mean they’re they’re trying to beat up the companies like the recycling companies um that are pushing the standards stormwater permits

which is why you guys i mean as a company are smart to try and get ahead of it in my opinion like you guys are doing the right thing and and that doesn’t that’s not cheap and it takes time it’s not a lot there’s a lot that goes into that so i mean i mean obviously you know from just out my outside perspective looking in like you guys are doing the right thing and but i think sometimes from a regulation standpoint or from uh you know people that are trying to force and cram you know all this stuff down your throat like you have to give a company time to implement you do these things you do and i’m very fortunate that i don’t wear one of those hats yeah on the environmental you know take care of that that’s a tough game i mean we you know um edward uh you know has built a team to deal with that we have a a person that that’s all they work with yeah you know all of our regulations permits and storm water and you know everything and you know i mean it’s an

expense to have someone yeah dedicated just for that yeah but um in the long run we do hope that by getting ahead of the curb as much as we can because the regulations change so much oh yeah that it it will benefit us and i had that same conversation with uh sako i was like john i was like you know how hard is it he’s like it’s hard you know like just fighting the some of the battles we have to fight and you know and and unbelievable and and sierra’s is one of those companies like cass that goes above and beyond and those guys are always trying to do the right thing and be ahead of the curve from behind because to me if you’re anytime you’re able to play play from ahead of the curve you’re in a better spot sure it might cost you a little more money but in the long run you’re better off yeah and so but he even you know we i have had this conversation with him too and he’s like yeah it’s there’s no doubt it’s tough they just put in a storm water system yeah

how often does it rain in bakersfield i know and that’s what he’s we were going through the radios let me show you how much rain we get in a year you know hundreds of thousands of dollars to put in this whole system you know for that much but yeah but he did it he did it because he knew if he didn’t do it it would come back and backfire him in the end come back on the back end and plus you know it’s just trying to do the right thing get ahead of it right i think that’s the right the flip side of it and i think that that’s part of the reason you know i know a part of why we you know choose who we partner with yeah like-minded same core values and you know if you know you can buy i can buy scrap from anybody yeah you can buy scrap from you can sell to anybody yeah but where’s your product going to go how is it going to be processed you know where is it going to end up and you know we’re an american company our product

stays in the united states stadium stays in america made in america everything i mean that’s there’s like there’s a lot of value to that in in my book um you know i mean that’s one of the reasons why we bought a wire chopping line was we were tired of exporting insulated wire you know across the ocean and hey hoping you’re gonna get paid b hoping you’re get paid the correct price see not knowing how it was even getting processed it just getting burned is it creating some right environmental issue and we’re like you know what we have the capability we have the technology we have the space like why don’t we just do this here in-house keep it in america sell it to numeric companies and there is opportunities to sell scrap export and some of the items that we deal with are export items but we still are exporting absolutely but you know if you can find that balance where we have the technology available here to do this to take this item and process it here let’s do it if we don’t have the technology or we don’t have the labor

force so it’s not cost effective for these three items those are export assets yeah i mean everybody everybody is in that same boat and you know i mean you know yes we we export stuff everybody does um but as much as possible we try to keep it within what you have what you can’t process with yourself yeah yeah which makes sense and and i think as well and the scrap business doesn’t get as much credit for the environmental um impact that we basically provide i mean it’s a dirty business worldwide but but we don’t get the credit for is for having been recyclers for as long as we have right like we’ve been thinking about the recycling and the industry for significantly longer than a lot of these new wave green companies absolutely and absolutely and so like we’ve been doing the right thing for a long time like is it somewhat of a dirty process you better believe it you know absolutely but it was it’s even a dirtier process to go out and try and mine the material right right you know that’s an even more intense process right so there is

a catch-22 there is there is but we’ve been doing it for a long goddamn time long you know a long time yeah a long time yeah so yeah so i mean hey you know i mean i’m i’m at cass just uh kind of you know kicking butt and taking names but enjoying it every day is a great day every day is different yeah which what i love about this business no day is the same no yeah you deal with a bunch of different customers you deal with a bunch of different you know market markets the markets are crazy what do you see i mean what do you guys see i know if if you had to rub the crystal ball of aluminum or any of the commodities you mostly deal in what do you what is your prediction for where the aluminum market is trending going i mean well auto manufacturers are going to aluminum yeah you know rapidly can stock has there’s a huge need for aluminum cans um getting away from a lot of them are talking about getting away from the plastic bottles the glass bottles going over to cans

so i see the the need within the united states wanting more aluminum so we’re hoping you know i mean that the market stays actually a little bit above where it’s at 79 cents on the lme plus a plus less premium of what 15 15 20 uh i i didn’t check the market today but 15 cents 15 cents which is you know inflated for what the purpose of the premium was supposed to be a really great number of the two combined is a dollar you know your primary aluminum manufacturers like that dollar kind of trading level everybody’s happy everybody can make money so at 79 and 15 you’re six cents shy of where it really needs to be kind of really for the sweet spot for the sweet spot um but um you know what was copper closed at today three three two 302 303 somewhere in that range you know yeah um so you know and everybody’s excited yeah that’s like a really good number for copper three dollar copper is three dollar copper is good everybody’s selling everything that they’ve been holding on to for a long time which is why that spread’s

opening up again you know it’s starting to okay stuff starting to come out of the woodwork and you know which is good that’s what we that’s what needs to happen you know um but um demand for um aluminum i see increasing in the auto sector okay um you know some of the local or you know united states die casters and you know all of that there’s there’s a slow yeah because of the covet um you know i i mean pre-coveted everything was rocking and rolling and everybody was just having a great time yeah covet has really hurt our economy yeah i i agree with that yeah especially on the just i mean the scrap flow slide side it slowed down the scrap flow for sure um i don’t know it depends on your region i think i mean there’s certain regions that it hasn’t affected you that much certain ranges that are off 30 40 percent yeah and i think i’ve heard 50 yes you know from somebody you know i mean i was i post on linkedin you know from a supply side and that’s the reason why we’re going to get

better ferris prices i think in september is because we the the supply doesn’t exist there’s enough demand on the local steel mill side and even they’re not running out of full clip but the there’s an export that’s pushing the domestic guys to keep them honest which is when it really gets good for the scrap business yeah agreed agreed you know i mean you know we work regionally you know the shits are steals the sims i mean you know sa recyclings all of those guys big guys in the world you know i mean but um but they’ve got to make money too they’ve got a big you know mouth to feed and so you know i i understand but you know west coast wise there’s not many still mills yeah so the majority of our steel is going export for sure you know what have we got seattle um and cascade and cascade you know but they are the good thing about with cascade they’ve stayed loyal to their suppliers yeah and they’ve chosen who they want to supply to them because they know the quality of the material that they’re getting yeah and so

you know i i don’t you know say i want to sell to you i mean you know yeah they’ve got what they need and and they’ve you know done a great job of producing the quality product and if they know the people that they’re shipping to them that have i mean i i don’t want to take away from that what’s pretty cool about the steel sector though is you’re starting to see more steel mills pop up in the united states many mills like it feels like it’s like if that curve is kind of coming back around so like and i don’t think california will be one of the states that they go to but there’s some areas around california like it’s you’re starting to feel that momentum come back into the market of well now these mini mills that you know rely heavily on scrap consumption yeah you know that’s good for the starting to come back recyclers that hey now there’s going to be more demand domestically for this material which then it goes back to putting two guys back at the auction that wants your material right not just one not just

one because yeah it creates the competition yeah you’re not so beholden to the export market yeah i i think that um yeah california probably will not get another steel mill yeah um you know we just lost uh some of the larger manufacturers of you know casting steel parts you know the pacific uh civic steel in berkeley shut down they were producing parts for really was caterpillar and you know all that but you know just yeah couldn’t couldn’t survive it was in berkeley so it was a little tough for them to you know environmentally so oh yeah that’s gonna be this will be tough right it’s tough um they’re used to years ago i i there was a steel mill um and i can’t i that’s where i need the knowledge of chow but there was a steel mill in oakland berkeley that that produced steel uh right there on the water really believe it or not and uh you know that’s gone and it becomes like a real estate plate too like you know i mean it does it’s environmental for sure but when you start talking about like you have a steel mill

on the water whether it’s you know whether you’re a port or you’re just excuse me from my uh um you know condominium you know or business park standpoint i mean what’s more profitable at that facility especially when you’re in a tech hub of the world it’s real estate it’s the real estate is the big driver real estate’s the big driver yeah i mean could cass you know sell all their property in oakland and you know move out of state and make a butt load of money on the real estate absolutely but yeah we’re rooted i mean you know 50 years in the business you know 1969 you know at that same facility i mean it says a lot and you know the things that you know kind of the added bonuses of the projects that we work with you know save mount diablo you know they’re you know mount diablo is a mountain in in our area and surrounding them there’s a a non-profit organization trying to buy up everything around it to save the natural resources uh the crucible which is a industrial arts for kids where they go in they learn

how to weld they learn how to do you know sculpting you know casting steel i mean the trades that are lost yeah you know in the united states so that you know that even that stuff you know just um makes it even more fun that’s like one of my big hopes like the big my big positive takeaways from kovid that i hope comes true is that there will be less of a push to send kids to college right don’t really they’re not college it’s not the best fit for them and personality like there’s so many like smart kids out there that could be traded welders plumbers you know machinists oh yeah that i mean that i feel like they’ve been kind of getting boxed into this whole college game and with the covid and all this craziness that’s going on right now that maybe some of these aaa degrees some of these trade degrees yeah could actually provide some fruit to the to these kids that like and and just basically set them on the path of you can make damn good money driving truck you can make damn good money as a machinist

and hey you’ve got you know united hauling yeah how hard is it for you to find a truck driver it’s very difficult i mean a good one there’s a lot of chuck servers out there there’s just not a lot of there’s not as many good ones yeah that’s what you’re all you know there’s a lot of guys that buy scrap out there there’s just not a lot of good ones and i think it’s like anything but the only way you get good is to do it yeah and the only way you teach somebody to become a machinist is to put them in a machine shop and let them do it let them do it for 10 years you know i’m good at it growing up my my father was in the navy 20 years in the navy okay our la his last um station was treasure island okay what a great place to grow up as a kid i mean you’re on this secure little bubble of island with the most beautiful view of san francisco and alcatraz and the golden gate bridge and you see all these things but my brother went to

a trade school high school it was high school he had some in class but he learned how to weld well my dad’s a welder pipefitter by trade so he was an ht in the navy and you know you know did all that but my brother went to a school you learn how to weld you learn how to be a plumber pipe fit you know you learned all these things and uh and you know after we had moved away to the suburbs they closed the school down i mean they don’t even have those schools anymore yeah and you know listen i’m not a college graduate i didn’t go to college you know but i’m dealing with you know fortune 500 companies you know and it’s and it’s not you know i i wouldn’t say street smarts yeah but you know there’s a lot of common sense smart so there’s a lot of common sense smarts you know as as my friend uh ciao soprisio would say arithmetic yeah you know i mean you know and and and working with people you know you don’t need absolutely need my point is you don’t need a college

degree no to make an honest living enjoy what you’re doing and we need those people to help build bridges build houses you know hvac i mean but what you do need is hustle yeah like if you don’t have any like the old school hustle then to me like that’s the problem like if i don’t care whether you’re a college degree or an aaa or you’re a dropout you know if you’re a degree or it doesn’t matter to me if you don’t have hustle then you’re not going to be successful in anything unless somebody’s dumps a bunch you know like your parents took a bunch of money on you before they died true i mean that and it really then you just have a bunch of money that doesn’t mean you know how to what to do with it how to live on it how not to you know i mean all the other stuff that goes along with that and that to me isn’t successful like somebody died you got some money that’s not successful in my book no you know successful is you busted your ass doing something you like to do or

something that was good enough for you that you half ass enjoyed and you made a good living and you supported your family or yourself or whatever i mean that to me is the you know and which is what i’d like to go full circle what i’ve always said about like the people in the scrap business and it’s not everybody but for the most part like because it is an old school grinder industry a lot of people that are doing they’re successful doing like yourself are people that just had a ton of hustle yeah like they started driving tow truck and they weren’t to work at a scrap yard and then they they were working at a scrap yard and they do they drove tow truck at night like that’s just hustle like that’s not you being way smarter than anybody yeah this is you saying like i’m willing to work harder than you true and then i’m willing to hustle makes breaks how many days a week do you work a lot yeah more than my wife would would like me to your wife is you know you know she wants to be with

you because she loves you and she she wants you to be there with the kids and everything but yeah probably seven days yeah i mean there’s a lot i mean every day you’re always thinking about it you know you you have to carve out the time for your family you do and but it’s but even when you’re with your family um you’re i’m still thinking about what’s going on back at work so it’s hey even in the shower you got your shower thoughts about work it’s a passion it is it is and work is in work is my hobby yeah it is like what i enjoy and i’m lucky enough to do something every day that i enjoy right so like that’s a good and you’ve surrounded yourself with people that you enjoy oh yeah working with my friends yeah i mean my friends are all the people that are here so friends family yep you know i mean you know watching the podcast of you know i mean we’ve talked about you know your history but yeah you know it was really really really cool watching your first scrap life podcast with your

mom and dad yeah i learned so much i mean and it’s just you guys talking yeah you know but just to see the history i mean well rooted here in idaho and to you know from starting their joint venture buying out the joint venture and i mean how many yards do you have now seven yeah yeah started with one yep and it’s a product of just like old school hustle right yeah yeah and that’s like one more success story you know yeah i mean you’re family i mean it’s not just you no 100 percent no i understood where you’re going yeah and but and that’s just like the team atmosphere yeah you know i i’m successful because i got a bunch of smart people that we’ve hired over the years so they make me look better than i probably am and you know well you’re selling yourself short too but i mean you know like we we all combine yeah our knowledge and we all combine our effort and and i’ll never ask you to do something i’m not willing to do yeah if i ask you to do it either i’ve done it

well you worked the scale yeah oh yeah for a lot of years you’ve worked your job worked through you’ve worked the forklift i mean you know you’ve done it all you got your you got your commercial driver’s license no i do not what i know i know that’s the hidden the hidden secret about the way i know but i mean for me it’s i have driven truck like but i have where your kids have driven the trucks too my kids i’m getting them where they can at least drive a golf cart jennifer the video that you got yeah i don’t know stealing the truck i know i know yeah but you know what photoshop i mean but brett you know i mean honestly i mean i mean you know we’re friends but you’re also a family man and you treat your team as their family and that’s what cass has done for you for me and um it it started with chao and now it’s with edward and you know and chow’s still there six days a week seven yeah he could be there seven he would i mean the guy’s just i mean

i mean he you know he’s lost fingers he’s lost you know his eye i mean he’s given his life his life to this business is because his hobby is his his hobby is his work and it’s and and it’s the same with edward i mean and and so i see the drive in them yeah which makes the drive in me want to be that much more not to prove to them anything yeah because it’s exciting to see what they’re doing to make me want to do just as much oh yeah it’s it’s it’s awesome man and you know listen i’ve got full benefits 401k i mean you know all of those added things i mean i didn’t have that at the tow company yeah you know i mean and i’m not saying anything negative about the tow company but i mean you know there’s guys that are with our company that when they retire they’re going to be set yeah i mean the money that they have in their you know they’re set for life i mean and but here’s the deal like the reason that they are is because they stayed with one

company yeah they worked their ass off yeah they did everything that they could possibly more yeah and they built a career yeah and that’s the other hidden like sometimes missing piece of the puzzle if you if you jump around you skip around and you’re trying to find this you’re you know and to me there’s nothing wrong when you’re young trying to figure out what your real passion is but once you find something that you enjoy and you find the company that’s willing to take care of you and you can build a career yeah you know and and you then you decide that that’s the route you want to go like you you made that deal like the company just held up their end of the bargain yeah you know but the reality of it is like you did your job like you paid your dues you worked the job you showed up like you did like you you made your retirement they just they provided you the vehicle like what you’re saying you’re right you’re right but they but they they stuck to it and they just grinded it out and built something that

you know maybe somebody told them one day you’re not ever gonna amount to but here we are hey man we figured out yeah yeah our guys they know that they aren’t yeah and that comes from top down you you create the right atmosphere well we appreciate everybody there i mean to the guy that’s sweeping to the guy that’s you know cleaning to the guy that’s doing we’re all the same yeah they’re i’m no better than them they’re no better than me we’re all equal i mean different titles i mean and we try not to have titles yeah you know i mean honestly i’m only using ceo talking to you it’s to me it’s edward yeah you know and i don’t really look at him as my boss because he he’s not bossing me around you know he’s not he’s he just gives you the runway and says go do your job he does yeah he does which that’s what you that’s what should when you make a mistake yeah understand the mistake look at why you made the mistake and try not to replicate that mistake but learn from your mistake for sure and

and when when and everybody makes mistakes yeah i mean oh yeah i’m sure you do too yeah you know sometimes yeah but he’s not beating us up because we made a mistake yeah we use it as a learning you know experience of why did we do this why how can we fix it so do you think you’ll forever i mean is the scrap industry like the industry as a whole like that’s the you’re not getting different it’s too fun man yeah it is i mean no day is the same no you know it’s pretty exciting i mean winter summer spring i mean you know different it’s a different thing yeah each day is its own challenge you know i mean it’s what do you enjoy the most about the industry what do you enjoy the most about like your job for me the people that i work with not just at the physical plant yeah but you you know customers suppliers i hate to use that word to be honest um and you know to be a trading partner and yeah but it’s just people that i do business with the friendships that i’m

able to to to do i mean you know we joked about earlier um i had told um brad from detroit’s crap that i was coming yeah tell him you want a pbr and a can i mean and immediately you knew that was him i mean exactly yeah you know i mean the people that i’ve when i get his ass here i’m going to have pbr yeah he said that you know you’ve been trying to get him down here i’m going to get him man i said hey you know i i said i couldn’t tell him no because i’m he knew i was gonna see my parents and i come into town you know i said just don’t ask me hard questions yeah and hopefully i’m not i’m not the smartest tool hopefully i haven’t gotten no it’s just a couple friends having a beer and talking about where they exactly which has been great well you talk about like the scrap industry which is like you know like segway like into what you know the podcast is like when when saco talked me into doing a podcast with him on the pile of scrap

i was super like reluctant to do it i did it and i really enjoyed just sitting down talking about because i’ve done podcasts um about the pipe industry yeah and because we have a separate company treasury pipe and and and i like i’m fairly knowledgeable about the pipe but i’m i feel like i’m more knowledgeable about the scrap industry and my passion really is doing the the scrap like you know trading trading the commodities and that’s been stripping wire in the garage since you’ve been five years yeah like that’s the jam right like that’s what i love and so when you know i’m like you know what i’m gonna do a podcast just to talk to people about the love the scrap industry i don’t care whether you’re the ceo and i don’t care whether you’re the guy on the forklift like if you if it’s changed your life and it’s been like good for you and you’ve built been able to build a career like that’s what i want you know that’s what’s changed my life man yeah that’s what i like to me i talk about the scrap industry i want to

talk to people that live it and breathe it and you know like every day yeah i was excited that i got to finally let you you know introduce you to my son i mean to me that was like i know you know we’re going to eat some dinner tonight yeah yeah i mean you know i met my wife um which is great yeah you know the first time meeting her yeah and uh but you know i mean for me you know like uh my son i mean uh couldn’t be more proud i don’t want to get choked up or anything but you know just for you to meet him and just to you know see he’s like you know yeah i work at a coffee shop and you know just to kind of explain what he did but you know um he didn’t go the big university route uh in the very beginning he did three years community college and when he did that he worked two and three jobs not because he had to he chose to he would go and be a lifeguard at the at the in rossmoor at the senior

community in the morning then he’d go and work at the clothing store in the afternoon and then at night he’d work here i mean you know and i’m like he’s hustling i mean he and he so my question for you like okay this might be the hardest question i’m gonna give you all day all right do you think hustle is like dna or do you think hustle is like top because obviously you had hustle yeah you like did you teach him hustle or did he just is it it’s i mean maybe he’s mimicking what he saw i mean your dad was hustling yeah right so like isn’t that like one of the best character traits like if you can give your kid anything yeah daughter son whatever like if you can give them like when i talk about you teach your kid i play basketball or football or whatever like if i should teach my kid anything the grind i just want to teach them how to hustle you know both of them like both my boys like we talk about this all the time like on their basketball like i said be the

guy that gets the rebounds dies on loose balls and plays a good defense and eventually the scoring will come like well that’s right yeah rodman that’s what i’m saying like and that’s his favorite player right and i said he goes i love rob and i said that’s your guy i go that guy it was not a traditional basketball player but no he had more hustle than most right he’s going to be in the he’ll be in the hall of fame yeah on hustle yeah and so like when i talk about like you know you talk about your son you like you i could feel how proud you are of him i always wonder like is it a dna in the hustle it’s good it’s got to be i mean my dad i mean god he’s in his 70s still grinding in the farm grinding on the farm he’s got you know he lives out in the country he’s got 20 acres growing alfalfa you know doesn’t have to i mean he did yeah he bought some property and he’s renting this and now he’s talking about rv park i’m like dad what are you

doing i got to keep busy i go dad just enjoy your retirement i don’t know like you don’t need the money just bring that i don’t know it ain’t about the money like it’s not i tell people i tell my wife and my you know people all the time like they ain’t got the money for me like no i’m good like i’ve done okay you know i’ve made some decent decisions in my life like and i said i don’t i think when i’m 70 i’ll still be doing it as long as i have my sons having kicked me out or you know like i’ll be as long as they let me get they get keep going i gotta go man because i love it yeah right and you know the really cool thing too is seeing my son and going through the process of everything he he i learned from him yeah on a daily basis that’s awesome yeah i mean i because he’s more compassionate than i am and just that you know his perspective on life and and things i’m learning every day and you know because of the covet he moved

back home and he’s he’s you know working locally and you know and he’s and he’s living with us but it’s just kind of cool having him there yeah man i don’t think my wife really wants him to go either you know i mean i you know we want to let him go and enjoy his his thing but it’s like a selfish thing he’s like you’re like my buddy i want to hang out no he’s just you know it’s it’s and then i have my my daughter you know at home at 15 and this covid really hasn’t affected her because i like we talked your wife’s a a teacher my daughter’s homeschooled and has been since third grade so she’s she’s as smart as i’ll get she’s she’s laughing yeah you know my my son he’s like god you know this online learning thing is just driving me she’s like i’ve been doing it for a while yeah yeah yeah and any tips call me he’s asking her what do i do with it and you know it’s just really cool to see so you know it’s just kind of come full cir circle with

with my son kind of being my friend now too yeah when you get that as they get a little bit older like that’s when my dad and i’s relationship changed was i was old enough to i i was old enough to like reflect on all the stuff he’s been trying to tell me for the last right x amount of years and i’m like you were definitely right more often than you were wrong like maybe some stuff so i some stuff i may not agree with all the way but you definitely you’re definitely right are you becoming your dad now i have some characteristics for sure but everything you said you didn’t want to do exactly yeah all right my man well i appreciate you coming and sitting down i mean i i owe you no i’ll come out your way any time i’m glad you’re sitting there down drinking beer with me yeah idaho beer and uh no thank you appreciate you man good to see you cheers take care