welcome to a scrap life a podcast solely focused on the hustlers Grinders operators and business owners who live and breathe the scrap metal industry every day here is your host Brett eard all right we’re back another episode of a scrap life I get the pleasure today to sit down with a guy that I’ve started kind of get to know at conventions is conventions talked to him couple times um and just Jennifer Betts introduced me and I was like hey I I want to talk to him I think that we could put together a big big a good podcast and just talk about the industry in general I’m sitting here with Jason gly from iery and I’m just super curious about his opinion on you know a few different things on the marketing side kind of his background and and you know as a fellow marketing guy I always like to you know just kind of pick people’s brains that are smarter than me and he’s that guy so thanks Jason for for showing up man and uh coming to shoot the with me yeah absolutely happy to be here man and I don’t know

if I’m smarter than you I I don’t know we’ll see we’ll we’ll uh we’ll let uh time tell I guess but but you that everybody’s got their strengths everybody’s got their weaknesses and I feel you know obviously the reason you’re sitting in the chair you are today um with the background you are today because somebody feels that you’re pretty pretty good at marketing so um let’s talk about it man I’m uh I’m super curious what your you know what your history look like you know how’d you get from you know into the position you are today with with marketing is let’s let’s kind of give me a little background on you okay um so um you know I I came into this uh the marketing world and kind of of a roundabout way um you know it’s it’s interesting I’m one of the few people I I did go to school for advertising and marketing um one of the few is using that you know using that degree um you go to school at uh UNCC Chapel Hill okay I grew up in uh middle nowhere North Carolina just outside of a little town

called rockboro North North of rale and Durham um and uh went to school there and um you know in all honesty just like most college kids that age I spent a good amount of time uh waiting tables and bartending um yeah which in all honesty heightened and helped my marketing career more than anything else I’ve ever done I think okay and why why is that what’s what what’s the crossover there that that you see anybody who’s ever waited tables or bartended for any good length of time that is the best education and people that you can get in watching them listening to them um what people don’t understand about bartenders and waiters is that you know we spend a ton of time listening to your conversations how people communicate what moves them what doesn’t move them what they like what they don’t like and and and just the kind of people in general um and what motivates them what doesn’t motivate them and and being able to adapt to interact with different people from different backgrounds constantly yeah it’s never the same person coming into a restaurant or bar ever so I’ve had this

conversation with my wife before my wife has I think my wife’s had like a hundred jobs um I swear she worked everywhere and which I can appreciate cuz she’s just she’s just a hustler right like it’s probably one of the things that attracted me the most to her is that she just she was like never afraid to like go work and just go you know get it right um and we’ll go we’ll we’ll go we’ll talk about her and your wife there but I think but the biggest thing we’ve talked about this is is she’s talked about how she’s waitressed and bartended you know a crazy amount of different places and and mostly like waitress like waitress side and and and server side and so she said just kind of how that teaches you a how restaurants move and and and bars and kind of how how things work but just the interactions with people is is so important and it’s important to how you’re making your living right whether you’re getting tipped out or not or your your co-workers are you you know are are they supporting you so you can be

successful and but just the interactions with people which she’s she’s touched on that before so that that 100% makes sense I mean it’s like it it’s like this little microcosm of society that you get to interact with on a regular basis and and and somewhat because the interactions are so like short and truncated it also gives you the opportunity to adapt try new things without lot a lot of consequences frankly yeah um and it’s it’s it’s a it’s a great education in in in working and dealing with the public and people in general so um Jason the bartender I mean what’s the what’s the most common cocktail that you serve when you talk about I mean what is what are most people like to drink honestly just beer and wine yeah yeah you pour more beer and wine than you do anything else uh I mean bar side you’re going to lean beer restaurant side you probably depending on the type you’re going to lean a little a little bit harder on the wine um and then on the on the on the cocktail side of things that ebb and flowed with the years

man I mean okay uh when I when I when I holiday season like right now holiday season what are people drinking holiday season um you’re GNA get a lot of like the people asking for like seasonal cocktail stuff with cinnamon in it and you know that sort of pumpkin spice yes yes all all all that stuff cuz everybody wants to know feel in the holiday spirit and that thing um especially those that don’t generally drink cocktails because if if if you’re a cocktail Drinker on a regular basis you like what you like generally speaking you might you’re all try one occasionally but like if you drink bourbon generally you’re gonna drink bourbon if you drink Vodka you’re gonna drink Vodka if you drink tequila you drink tequila that’s I get I like it I like it I hate to sidebar it too far but I mean I’m always curious It’s just it’s such an interesting field and and it and it lends itself to like to Marketing in general right I mean because it’s I mean marketing to me is trying to find how to make yourself relatable to people you want to do

business with right I me in a roundabout way so it’s like as a bartender or waitress or whatever I feel like you’re you’re trying to make yourself relatable just so that people are excited to stay there to have you help them to do business quote unquote business with you right and enjoy their experience right so go any that has regulars that’s a that’s a business relationship it is yeah there there’s a lot of personal you know wrapped up in it obviously but that is you know it’s it’s it’s it is it is a a small version of a of a of a business relationship 100% so you wrap up your degree North Carolina and what’s what’s what’s next what what do you do next well um I actually uh started in the promotions department for a radio station okay um and what the promotions Department especially in the in the mid to late 2000s did is that you know when you heard you know K97 the rock is at you know whatever car dealership you know come see us you know we got the DJ blah blah blah I was one of the guys

always who help set that stuff up okay you know run them run the remotes run the events um um you know played hype man you know for our DJs and that sort of thing um and so I did that first I did it for a a small station out of Raleigh North Carolina um I had a a year-long stop in Tennessee with a rock station out there and then I ended up actually what initially brought me up to the DC area where I is located was the uh the Clear Channel radio station grp well it’s iHeart radio now but um the radio the group out there that did like you know DC 101 and um a lot of the big DC stations and that was uh the uh assistant head of the the promotion department for the pop station for quite some time um and that that’s one of those jobs where like God I was only there for about two and a half years because I got burned out when you’re doing that especially at the upper level in the department you know you have your normal business hours where you’re there

from you know 8 to 5 9 to 5 whatever it is sometimes even earlier because if you got to be there for the morning show you’re up at you know you’re there at 3:00 a.m with the morning DJs and then when they go home to sleep you still have your office out no rest for the wicked and then and then nine times out of 10 we had a night event going on of some kind either we were at a bar club some a concert something was going on so I was burning the candle at both ends for for about two and a half years um my social life and my work life were one and the same like there was no difference is that a salary position or is that an hourly a very very small salary position and and and the reason that the reason it is such a small salary position is because the access that you have like okay in that two and a half year period I probably met more famous musicians than I ever thought I would in a lifetime yeah um it it it’s just also

a really interesting education in people especially famous people and how they operate when the cameras are on and when the cameras are off so what’s the takeaway from that like I mean let’s let’s go down the rabbit hole what’s the take take away from you know what a famous what what do you see what’s the difference when the the cameras are on the cameras are off um with probably about it’s probably about a 6040 split 40% are the same whether they’re on or off and that’s and that’s a 60% I would say are just they’re they’re they’re different like either they you can you can almost watch them turn it on and off whatever that personality trait that’s accentuated for the public you watch it turn on and off when when when they when they’re when the cameras are on and off and that was always very interesting to me and I understand it because I mean I mean let’s face it if you have like a famous musician who is naturally an introvert yeah it’s not going to be a very fun interview if he gets in there and does this and doesn’t

talk and do anything so you watch him turn it on and he’ll bring it out for a while but then as soon as the camera’s off he goes quiet again doesn’t want to talk to anybody but I get that because if you’re an introvert and you do that that takes a lot of energy out of you right yeah yeah yeah you’re you’re probably stretching your somewhat of your maybe your comfort zone or your normal day today comfort zone I feel like you see that in a lot in actors right they’re they’re like great actors but then in their personal life they’re just kind of like quiet because I mean that is a truly like a something that they have to to turn on and and and that’s that’s their work right like they’re going to work like we’re same Reon we like downtime we go to work you we bust our ass where we’re operating cab bogans like your hat says or we’re running a cutting torch or we’re in an office and we’re answering questions we’re doing this and then we get home we’re just kind like oh man I just kind of

want to pet my dog and drink my coffee or my whatever and just like slide into the the evening you know and what I find and and what I find with a lot of I guess you know famous folks is that you know if they’re on a on a publicity tour or something they’re downtime is next to nil so any moment when the camera turns off it’s like okay so give me one story give me like a whoever you want like give me something funny give me something that that like you you would they would kind of that people would appreciate all I’m asking is for one one good one okay all right so um there was uh a GU a guy coming into the the the studio uh very F very very famous hip-hop artist who had a bit of a reputation for being you know a lot to handle we can’t say the name is it it it was it was P Diddy okay all right he was he was he was coming into the studio just for you know morning interview spot nothing f fancy nothing like that I think

he had he wasn’t performing but I think some of his artists were performing at a DC Club later on that night and he was there to help promote and and push that and So based off of his you know his rider which you know what a writer is right okay it’s basically this List of Demands that an artist put gives any venue that they’re going to show up to and be like this is all the stuff that better be there and better show up and whatnot and of course his rer like you know 50 pages long with all kinds of weird stuff in it and you okay okay and AD and admittedly a lot of artists put random stuff in there just to see if people do it yeah makes sense um but um and so we were prepared to kind of like so a lot of our interns and staff and that sort of we excited and want to meet him want to take pictures with him but we were being pretty pretty guarded about it and being like guys you got stay back can’t you know we don’t want to make anybody

mad yeah and he comes in and kind of does the whole PDD Persona thing for the for the for the um uh the interview and stuff and but in all a afterwards and he he didn’t he’s one of the ones he one of the 40% he didn’t turn off but on or off he was so nice and gracious to our staff like he he sat around took pictures with everybody and then at the end of it told all the interns and all all all of us they were like all right y’all you’re coming to the concert tonight right he’s like all right he he pointed to his assist he’s like get all their names they’re all VIP they’re all on me tonight okay I was like yeah okay thanks um you know I’ve heard some you know since I mean I’ve heard some negative stories about him and that sort thing but he couldn’t have been nicer or or more gracious to to us when he was there which was you know when you’re a when you’re staff member at a at a radio station or even you know an intern you know some

of these folks that come in they they won’t even look at you like much shake your hand or take a picture you know it goes back to I say this like I’m I’m a judgmental person my wife says BR you’re so judgmental and I’m like yeah but it’s only I’m only judgmental if I’ve met if I met you and I’ve had an interaction with you right like I’ll make a snap judgment on you and I’m not saying that good I’m just saying like that’s probably something I need to work on but I don’t really judge people if I’ve never really met them or had any interaction with them but so many people are will just make a judgment call on say a guy like a P Diddy or whoever right and say but L but then you at least you’ve had the ability to say I’ve met him when I met him my interaction with him was A+ and so you know and I think that if we all just gave everybody at least the opportunity right regardless I mean whether they’re famous or just any individual and just I’ll give you the opportunity

it goes back to like an old saying like I think I was it Gary V or somebody that said one time that was like trust first like be the first one to trust so it’s like I’ll Trust you I’m gonna give you a shot if you it up I promise you like I’m I will write you off so quick you know but if you don’t ever if you don’t like if you I will extend the hand I will be I I want to give you the benefit of the doubt but I’m a quick I’m a quick judge of character like I’m just going to admit it’s a fault of mine or whatever it is but I will judge quick and I’ll move forward accordingly and it’s almost because in our life in our business where we have to right we have to make decisions decisions decisions sometimes I wish I could slow that down maybe on the people front but it’s we’re making decisions every day and I think to your point with a guy like P or whoever is give people the opportunity I think most of the the time they’ll probably surprise

absolutely absolutely yeah and and you know on the on the on the more famous side of folks in in in that working world like one of the things I learned and and and it it takes you a while but you know everybody has bad days right yeah and when you’re that level and every interaction is under a microscope of course there’s going to be bad ones yeah exactly yeah 100% you know it’s like when they you you see those pictures of famous people walk around their pajamas you know they’re like can you believe they would wear pajamas in public I’m like God if you see how many times I wore my sweatpants I was like dude I went to Walmart like that like that two days ago what are you talking about like I don’t know what you you’re judging them on how many times have you been to Walmart in your sweats oh love it that’s a good all right so here we go so you you just told me something that kind of that kind of made me it kind of made me smile before we turn the cam before we turn

the record button on is you said you got to iie give me the story you got hired in in January right but tell me so I got hired in January of 2020 and anybody who’s listening knows that that was the Calm before the storm if you will yeah I remember that really I was I remember that really well um you know and I came in and um they were in the midst of in the in the in kind of the middle of the throws around you know this time of year planning for this you know our upcoming convention in 20120 which never happened but um you know I came in with all these you know getting hired there I had walked in with kind of some some plans that I wanted to put in place and had presented during my interview process about hey based on what I’ve seen and you know I’m not I know I’m not interior but this is what I’m seeing here and there and this is what I want to move here and there and basically that you know that two to threee plan I had put together I

had to go who that’s not happening time for the the the pivot so what what did they hire you what when they brought you in I mean tell what did they hire you to do what’s your I mean well that they they hired me to start the marketing department because isra didn’t have a centralized marketing uh function within the organization um at at that point um it was done it’s not that they didn’t Market it’s just that you know different dep departments were marketing their own products and services the way they seemed fit and and you know anybody who’s worked in a in a organization that has a lot of different departments and different functions if you’re marketing them separately it’s very very hard to create a a singular picture of what something is right yeah like you know um you know it’s like it’s like telling five different people to draw like verbally to all draw the same picture and expecting to look like they’re not that’s not gonna happen yeah for sure um and so I was brought in to kind of centralize that that marketing function for the or organization um

talk to the different departments about what their goals were and what they were trying to do um you know not come in and like you know trash everything that anything was happening or anything like that it was more about okay you’re doing this this is working for you all right let’s keep doing that but how about we make it look like this and oh by the way they’re doing this over here and that matches up well if someone needs this they probably going to need that too so let’s you know bring that together and and and and and create some I hate this word but create synergies across the organization yeah well just make it make it look similar make it like make the message you know across you know across the department a similar message so when you say like you had to rip up the you know the the plan um what what was the biggest pivot point I mean what what did you have to do I mean was it from a physical inperson to everything now went virtual I me when you had to start and and grow and build

me what was the biggest change I mean the and you know this was this was a huge part of you know a thing with Israel in 2020 that that you know frankly was you know we were we were one of the few organizations that actually had pandemic insurance against our conventions oh wow I mean of course and and it’s one of those things that was like you know an extra an extra line item on on on the insurance you take out for any event and it happen that you know is had always checked that and you know and this was the one time where it was like okay yeah wow yeah gives you a little bit of breathing room right yeah and and that’s exactly what it created in all honesty for us it allowed us uh to um put together you know a a a smaller scale virtual program um that one of the thing and and I I’m going step take a step back one of the things that happened during the during that time period particularly with Israel and this is very very unique for an association we actually grew through

the through the through the pandemic which was really strange for a member ship based organization that in a lot of you know anybody doesn’t matter if it’s this industry or another a lots of times you’re your membership dues to something come out of what I would call a disposable income line item within your organization um generally speaking it’s not something that you’re like okay this is you know this is an absolute must have but what was different was that more than ever during that time period our members were looking for uh they wanted to network they wanted to connect with each other they wanted to reach out and make sure everyone was okay they wanted to extend the helping hand in any way that they could if at all possible and at the same time they wanted to make sure that their door stayed open yeah I was going to ask I kind of had my thought process on you know where I was going with it but I was curious to let you get you know and so what what we did by that is you know initially we set up we set

up what what was basically a a weekly Town Hall uh it was all based off the zoom and anybody who was a member of isra who wanted to pop on and and start talk start you know and talk about what was going on where they were um that’s what it was for and it created it created a network and and and one of the things I saw that came out of it wasn’t necessarily like there were some solutions that came out of it absolutely but more than anything else during that time I saw a community that was built and there was a lot of comfort found in participating and and and utilizing that as a way to connect interesting um because you know obviously you know during that time period the world was in a tail spin right I mean there was so much insecurity everywhere that like we were trying to Pro we inadvertently and and and purposefully I think created this little Bastion of comfort for the industry to take hold of um which they found very very useful and those that were running into you know local issues about whether they

they they’re allowed to be open or not were finding folks that had found ways to do it on their that they’re like oh well can you send me a copy of that letter absolutely no problem here you go where yeah that who where did the recycling is essential um come from did it come out of those meetings yes it actually it absolutely did that that that entire campaign was uh built uh in in part to get the federal exemption for our industry to to be able to stay operate normally yeah and that was a an extremely critical part and I think um really the Lynch pin that helped us grow through the pandemic they’re like oh wow okay these guys actually can they’re they’re taking they people probably saw it I mean I I I think what you’re saying is correct but I think also people probably saw it as if I got to join you know and and and group together with other these other recycling companies there’s probably power in us all saying the same message going back to why you started Israel it beginning trying to get the all these departments

to speak a similar language right in their own words but a similar language it was important for the industry at that time to speak the language of we’re essential we you need us you need us operating you need us to have our doors open and certain Geographic areas felt that more than others right you’re more liberal cities and states they were a little it was a little tougher on a little tougher Go versus let’s say States like Idaho and you know Texas and wherever else where they’re like I mean I didn’t we didn’t close our doors I mean I mean but I know a lot of people that they didn’t have a choice and yeah and I think oh yeah you have somebody from City County or government at your door going block them yeah or there’s a thousand doll fine every day you leave them open right or whatever that you know whatever the case may be and so that’s when it becomes I always feel like my issue with isy was always that they didn’t it wasn’t as much local it was more of a National Organization they looked out for National

um uh thought National like issues right and I think that um part of that is like I on a local basis there’s just too many different locals too many different local rules laws governing bodies for even a National Organization to really metal too deep in that I think and um so that I understand and so so but it’s taken me a while to get there if I’m honest um but I think that is a good example of where you know you you maybe you bring you’re not they’re not going to say come and to City of boisey and say hey is is not and say we’re important you need to keep the doors open for United medals right but your ability to kind of group together band together and create some sort of you know um theme some sort of you know speaking the same language whether it’s marketing or whatever it is like I could see the value in that and and during that time period you know that’s also where you know at a at at a national level admittedly you know our our ability to to address you know hyperlocal issues

you know if we’re not there but at the same time we also have chapters right yeah and and and those chapters you know the ones that are engaged that’s where that can happen um you know a lot of our chapters are starting to bring their own um uh lobbyists on on within the chapter to to address those local issues directly and um you know through through the advocacy Department you know at isra we’re we’re we’re providing those hobbyists with with kind of Direction messaging to make sure that that everything kind of stays Co cohesive on the national level as much as possible right yeah and you know because you know let’s face it what’s happening in Idaho is not the same thing that’s happening in New Jersey it’s just no no it’s a very it’s a very very different and that’s why I was saying like if I’m honest and I’m I’m pretty I’m not good at much but I try and keep it pretty honest and uh and and part of that like what I said is like that was always my but until I understood the function of it right and as

I’ve gotten a little bit older and trying to kind of look out from a more broader perspective I can see why it would be you know that’s a tall order for any big company right I mean to be able to because the reality of it is is isra is a big company I mean they’re an association whe nonprofit what however you want but how many employees is is how many um we have 5 yeah spread out across the country right like or you’re managing issues I mean you’re you’re you’re concentrated in DC right but your your issues are spread out across the country then across the world I assume very much so yes how members members um of isra span how many countries God you caught me um see I told you there’s a gotcha moment in here somewhere though I mean uh admittedly uh country-wise I’m pretty certain we’re in something like we’re in over 50 I know that yeah if not if not if not if not more um because pretty much if if if if you’re dealing in the recycling industry at all or engaged most likely we have at

least one or two companies that that are engaged with us um we also work very very closely with bir which is the you know the B Bureau of International Recycling um and the majority of the folks that are engaged there are engaged with us as well gotcha are you going to like have you attended like the bir are you have you attended those conferences I have not not personally um you know on the uh as as we start to grow and expand um you know I would I will say that the the Prospect of of of moving uh bigger on the international stage is one of the things at the Forefront uh for us as an organization I think um you know we’re still if you look at the concentration of our members we’re still very much uh you know United States Canada a very domestic U geared um association with um and and a lot of our International um engagement is you know runs along the lines of import export from you know other countries and this sort of thing and dealing with those regulations um but uh on the international level is

you know you we look at it as you know you you gota you got to move where things are moving right and if things are moving International then then you know you’re you’re either part of the conversation or you’re on the menu right yeah 100% yeah we want to be in we want want to be part of the conversation um and so um we’ve uh on the on the advocacy side of things and on the um even on the international relations side of things um you know there’s been some uh staff additions even over the past year to enhance those uh those those that presence gotcha and that’s in order to um just in order to work collaborate more tightly with say like vir or is it to in order to form say one one larger organization or what is the what does that future potentially look like it’s it’s all the above honestly um because I mean there’s not I mean there’s not one Lynch pin to it other than other than to say you know for for you know our domest for our domestic uh geared uh members you know we want

to ease the import export burdens right as much as we possibly can um we want to work with uh other countries you know that are you know frankly uh we work with them on adopting standards um for you know for material so that so that when you’re having those conversations you’re talking the same language you’re talking about the same thing even even even that is is is a challenge right now big time because if you can’t if you’re not operating by the same standard then what are you really talking about yeah yeah um and and and setting those at the international stage is is is critical for for for Commerce frankly um to happen um you know in any trusted and um honest way 100% so let me make this switch on you so I’m looking at your shirt right and and I’m this recycle materials and and and I’ve kind of watched it evolve over the last couple years and um and I’m super curious you know what because this is marketing right like that’s what it is like we’re we’re and and cycle materials versus the word scrap or junkyard or whatever

right it’s I mean there’s there’s been a there’s a real um push to make that um word wording change so where does it come from what’s the what’s the purpose behind it um let’s hear it from a marketing guy I want to know well I mean coming from a guy who hosts a podcast called a scrap life I mean you know let’s go absolutely absolutely absolutely so it’s not you know we we’ve worked with a with a with an outside uh really language firm to come up with this and what what it you know in marketing is not what you say it’s what people hear right doesn’t you can you can say whatever you want to say but if they don’t hear it the way that it’s supposed to be heard then it doesn’t matter so in our testing what we found is that scrap as a general word in the public ether right whether you’re talking to you know the guy down the street who who knows nothing about our industry um you know a County Supervisor down the street or a US senator right that word in it of itself has a

negative connotation in people’s minds um and and we can talk about the why of that and I think a lot of it has to do with just I mean you could blame it on History you could blame it on Hollywood frankly um you could blame it on on the mediums that we didn’t take because let’s face it who hasn’t seen a seen a movie where a CD deal happens in a scrapyard an action movie like we’ve all seen those yeah yeah 100% um but recycled as a word always tested well because you’re talking about something like an in like something that already happened oh this was cycle this is good that yeah it goes it it really breaks down to almost just the difference between you know this word good this word bad um and it’s and what I what I and what I’ve been telling everyone that I that I talk to about this is that you know nobody at at Israel or anywhere is going to come in and be like stop using scrap at all no absolutely not you want to call it scrap life talk about scrap go for it

like yeah and and especially in in in inner circles like like I mean if you have an industry- based podcast where the majority of your audience are are basically you’re talking inside baseball call it whatever you want it’s fine it doesn’t matter like I mean you know inside the industry scrap is not a bad word cool yeah how about it it’s more about that outside perception of us as an industry right uhhuh um and Shifting the mindset of people away from you know the junkyard or the Hollywood SE junkyard looking thing you know and more into like oh recycled materials that’s what my car is made out of that’s what that bridge down the M Street is made out of that’s what the hospital that my where my baby was born is made out of yeah so it’s it’s it’s shifting that mindset and recycled materials is the one that that uh when we did all our testing and focus groups and whatnot uh did that um um and this was done you know not with with a lot of with what with industry insiders because that’s not the audience for it right yeah

no makes 100% 100% sense like where you’re going with it and I think sometimes like like I said before like I like to poke the bear every once in a while and just to just because I’m just because i’ I’m that’s just the way it is but yeah but for anybody that knows me like and even wants to know the history of of my company that my grandfather started we used to be United metal and scrap Company Inc that was when it was founded that’s what it was right yeah and probably 10 years ago we did a Rebrand and I changed it to United Metals Recycling right and because I wanted recycling not scrap right like that was and so to your guys’ point right and you guys have refined it even more to recycled materials and I get it and and Sako and I have had this conversation a lot right I mean we both have podcasts with scrap in the name I’m not changing it but to your point we’re talking inside baseball to people that we that we you know do business with and we you know appreciate and we like

talking about scrap but the reality of it is um You probably say things a little bit different to your grandmother than you do to your friend but you can talk about the same topic right AB I feel like that’s probably you know the you know what’s going on and I’m all for it I love I love the I love I’m an and guy I want it I want both you know I want to talk scrap with my buddies in the industry I want to talk to business and our grandfather and our dads and cutting iron and with torches like I want to talk that and at the same time I also when you walk into your kids school or to you know a business meeting or whatever with somebody that’s not in your industry and then for them to say what do you do like what is your what do you what’s what what’s your job what’s your business and you there there’s a there’s a nicer more refined way of of saying it you know and so I’m I’m all for it and I’m I’m uh as much as I like you know

poking at it like I did it myself right like yeah I already I did it I mean to a certain extent I changed it so what is the challenge that you guys have had getting because you it’s like turning a big ass cruise ship right like you don’t just go and then go right like it takes a while to to make that change and what is the biggest challenge you have guys have faced getting people to to change that if any honestly I wouldn’t call it a challenge I mean just like with anything when you’re steering a big ship it takes time it’s consistency over time just like anything else if you’re if you’re going to affect change like you know we live in we live in a some somewhat of an instant gratification world where everybody wants it now right yeah and the truth of the matter is with something like this when you’re trying to Shi shift shift wholesale perspectives about something and the way something is thought about in in in the general Public’s mindset is that it takes time and consistency and constantly just sitting there beating the drum right

until you get there um you know it’d be wonderful yeah if we could create a viral video that all of a sudden changes everybody but the truth is is anybody that’s going for that that to me to me that’s the wrong goal um consistency over time now if it happens to happen awesome but anybody that tells you that they can do that you know out of the box is lying to you so how do you I mean how do you propose I mean ultimately like where where does that does that future look like for the industry and how how long do you think that of the of the messaging before it really takes hold or do you feel like it’s already taking hold I think it already is to a certain extent um you know at our at our at our last the last time we did a um a fly in which is just where you know a bunch of members come in and they meet with different members of of of their uh of Congress their at their at the local level in DC in their offices to talk about issues um

we we utilize this language in a lot of the talking points that we sent along with all with all of our members when they’re having conversations and the feedback that we got is that this flying you know they the the the folks they were talking to on the hill were much more receptive to what they were saying it’s not that the messaging around what we were saying in terms of what we need changed necessarily it’s just how we said it gotcha and all of a sudden that you know us you know when people get it it’s like a it’s like they flip a switch it’s very difficult um because of Co there’s cognitive dissonance between like okay here’s this old piece of rusty metal that most people when you say what is this that’s jump or that’s trash or that’s you know whatever and you go actually no that’s your car five years from now so it’s not just the words it’s also if you look at what we’ve been doing in in in in a lot of the materials that we’ve put been putting out we changed our we’ve changed our imagery too

you know we’ve changed you know we’re using finished products and stuff that we’re that we’re putting out into the world we’re using that picture of the brand new car we’re using the picture of a bridge that was just redone using a picture ofb yeah we used a picture of a winter B we’ve used picture pictures of hospitals um because that that’s and and it’s true and it’s just what we haven’t been doing especially on the image basis like you know don’t get be wrong I love looking at pictures of big machines crushing stuff and doing things like I’m like like I’m a Tonka Toy Boy like I mean you give me I’m like yeah I will watch that all day my my son’s the same way he’ll watch it all day however if you’re looking to to shift the perspective of some of of of an entire population around what is you’re doing you know they we we’re making the jump jump to say we made that that is not possible without us we made that bridge we made that hospital we made that car and we did yes 100% let’s take responsibility for

it yeah so I guess it’s probably just a matter of getting your you know even your I mean your smaller your smaller Recycling and and I tell people this like as a as a scrap guy right like I’m I love it gritty I love the the toughness of our industry I love all of it there’s nothing I would ever change about any of it I’m proud of where I go to work you know I’m proud of what we do and and even my kids kind of chuckle at me sometimes about they’re like golly like you know I the jeans I wear the the ability I get to do the freedom I have and doing what I do and and and trying to get that message conveyed with a more uh you know well I guess well-rounded for everybody message so you can kind of have your cake and eat it too right is I mean if what does the acronym ier stand for is to scrap recycling Industries but but even right now I mean we’re we’re in the Pro we’re going through a rebranding process so are you gonna leave it as

is z uh to be determined honestly um yes yes I mean uh We’ve if if if you notice the way we we’ve been presenting ourselves recently like we don’t we don’t share the share the spelled out version of it at all anymore yeah even in official documentation we’re just isra um The Voice you know the voice of the recycl materials industry that’s what we are now we’re going through a process right now that and actually if you anybody who’s interested and wants to see the final results they going to be revealed at is 2024 um uh you know we’re going through a very very very uh studious and and weal rebranding process whereby you know what comes out is going to be you know our identity for the next you know 20 or 30 years um related to the and it it it all stems from the language project that we started you know two years ago um because how how how much has your role been a part of that language which I mean how how how much of that have you been involved in how much of that is your undertaking it’s

it’s it’s not really my undertaking it’s it’s primarily our our Co our coo uh my boss Holly um okay Holly Arthur is been spearheading that for us um uh working with uh an outside language CS calls m the m Lansky group um uh they’re the ones that did that did the initial language project for us and and did all the the the testing and how we got to the recycled materials portion of that um and this is kind of just the next step in the evolution um for is your job then to get people to understand it excuse me is it your job then to like obviously you’re you allow them to to figure out the results and put put their two cents on it then your job is to quote unquote sell it my well part of my job is to package it for sure but but I would argue it’s everyone’s job to make sure it’s understood okay I like that yeah I mean it’s it’s all of our jobs right if we’re in the industry and you want the industry to to be successful or to be respected I I could

I could see that so it’s one of those things you know we’re we’re all we’re all responsible for that to a certain extent yeah so to I I maybe you maybe you maybe you planned on this you didn’t plan on that but you’re saying here at I 2024 in in Vegas we’re g to we’re going to hear what that what that new acronym is you’ll we’ll have the new brand the new brand we’ll leave it at that okay so you being part of a Rebrand and and this is a this is important you know topic for me because you know is I I think you know it’s it’s made up of a lot of large companies right but it’s also made up of a fair amount of small companies mediumsized companies and they’re probably at the same time in the middle of their own Rebrand I’m talking to a guy right now who’s got a couple different facilities with a couple different names and he’s talking about the importance of should I Rebrand and create one right synergistic and and what is that what is the importance of a Rebrand I mean what what

do you I mean why would someone that’s a third generation a company that’s never really did much marketing or whatever I mean where’s the where do they find the value in a Rebrand or a marketing campaign or whatnot from your standpoint well from my standpoint brand to me is how you’re thought about period like I mean you know Brett you have a brand you know it’s it’s called Brett eer right it’s it’s your a it’s who you are organizations have the same thing and so you know I look at it like okay you know it’s it’s a bit cliche but Nike right and they have the the swoosh or the check mark and everybody knows what that means you know there’s value for some reason you know you put that on a on a shoe and it cost $50 more right yeah well still just a shoe you know it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s a shoe it’s a it’s a commodity everybody has shoes but because of that brand we as human beings place a lot more value on it and are willing to pay for it and so you know it’s not that

it’s not that you can’t do business or can’t survive without it you absolutely can of course you can’t you know but I will say if you’re looking to uh enhance your reputation who you are and and and if you frankly if you have a if you have a stellar reputation already then that makes the process that much easier frankly you’re just kind of putting putting putting a mark and some words behind it it’s it and saying okay you know if your representation is that you you’re honest trustworthy and you you’re always you know operating um on the up and up then that’s what your Brand’s going to be and the brand itself I mean from a marketing standpoint it’s it’s just like what we’re doing with the Rebrand it’s going to be a constant drum beat it’s got to be consistency um you think that’s why people are who you are is that why people are afraid to do it they is it is it because it is it’s not an insant gratification it’s a commitment to the process it’s a commitment to I mean you know like you said you’re not going to

change the if you’re a third generation company and you’ve always been known as you know XYZ you know scrap or whatever you you don’t just flip the switch and and change all your science and change your letterhead change how people think about you like that doesn’t happen overnight there is some sort of capital commitment that you have to commit to in order to to get that but it’s also consistent C that you have to commit to right and in and particularly in this day and age you know I think there’s a lot of fear about it because you know when you’re when you’re when you’re doing marketing or you know pushing your brand I would I would argue that today it requires a lot of authenticity and frankly some vulnerability too because you gotta let people in yeah you gota let people see that’s a good point scary yeah that’s good point you know you know it’s it’s not the days of the the the old you know radio voice car sales just making making his sales pitch that doesn’t that you know people see right through that I mean they know exactly what

that is um I would argue that successful marketing and branding these days is is is a lot more about authenticity and showing the world who you are which is a scary thing you know to put yourself out there and be like this is me look at me yeah wants to be up on the St like I mean think about it you walk out on stage in front of 100 thousand people and be like this is me look at me tell me what you think yeah that’s scary it is 100% that was the biggest thing I had to get over I tell people that all the time like even for me doing the podcast or you know Sako had to kind of con me in to do my first one on his and I finally I saw the value in it for my business and so I’m like you know if I’m we all have to make sacrific in life right if you want to be fit you gotta work out you gotta eat right well if you want your business to grow and you want to you know be well known in your area

or whatever like there’s certain things you have to do to kind of create that uncomfort and marketing and branding and and all that is is part of it being willing to put yourself out there and so I think um I always have Sako to thank for that um you know as as much as I like messing with that guy and we go back and forth we do a lot of business together and I I feel like we have a great friendship that we’ve it’s evolved over the years but because but I will always thank him for saying Brett tell your story like go and do it right and I think that that’s important for iery to also encourage people to tell their story and whether you hire a marketing firm to do that or not I don’t really care um you know I know some good ones but the reality of it is like whether you do that or not you you got to tell your story yes you got to get out there and tell people why you’re good at what you do you got to get out there and tell people why

you’re important to your community you know I think and I think that’s the biggest thing that I hope people get you know out of with me doing this it’s like I I just want to like I always say I want to lead by example and say I did it you can do it it’s super possible if you’re willing to do the work but you have to tell your story and I and and I think one of the most important parts about that you hit you touched on this Brett is that you have to tell your story and the reason is if you don’t tell your story it’s not that it won’t be told it just won’t be told by you yeah you don’t tell it then the one that that gets told may not be right could be good could be bad back to our all the way like full circle like you know to the P Diddy conversation like if P Diddy doesn’t meet you and talk to you and and show you his true colors or maybe that was his true colors of the day I don’t know but that’s still your

Forever you’ll walk away you’ll know how he treated you and how he dealt with you your team and your people right so that’s what you’re going to believe and that’s the the the whole thing about you telling your story and you creating that that those personal relationships and those personal contacts is it gives you the opportunity for them to meet and and hear you discuss your thoughts your points of view how you how you approach things you’re getting that chance to make that impression versus what the neighbor you know down the road says about you or or or you know in in in all honesty I mean if you’re talking about you know if you don’t if you’re not telling your story but your competitors telling their story well then he can you know I would argue he could tell your story too if you wanted to yeah you’re not gonna do it all right man so we well you and I both agree marketing is important um so speaking of marketing I want to end on this but I want to talk about um isri in Vegas 20124 I can’t help but notice

your background um and uh being a true marketing guy you’ve never missed an opportunity so I love it I love you for that um but I mean this one’s probably shaping up to be a big convention for you guys right I mean for many reasons so I mean what what’s going to be what’s this year different there give somebody a reason to come out that is different than last year’s 2022 in Vegas okay so 2022 in Vegas you know we’re with our events we’re constantly building an evolving right and seeing what works and what doesn’t and so with Vegas you know the the I mean the biggest reason to I mean it’s it is the largest lest Gathering of the recycled materials industry in the world in stop like anybody that wants to come at me and tell me that it’s not bring your stats and I hope they’re good yeah um you know uh it’s 6,000 plus attendees all invol all you know directly involved in the recycled materials industry and there’s not a a bigger opportunity to expand your network in the world um in in terms of in terms of

uh uh doing business making new connections making friends that sort of thing um and in terms of what’s new um we have a we have a completely sold out Exhibit Hall that’s going to filled with the latest and greatest Innovations the industry has to offer um you know one of the things that we’re doing this year uh even on the expo hall floor is we’re going to have a an innovation stage that’s going to have uh demos of of of products that are up and coming um and really being launched at convention um we’re also going to be doing some live pod uh live podcasting um from that stage uh that you know I’ve been told you’re taking part in um yeah um so you know we’re gonna give we’re hoping to expand industry voices if you will and you know one of the things is is that we’re working on um at isri is you know there’s a ton of good content coming out from the industry whether it’s podcast whether it’s you know short form video whether it’s you know I’ll give a I’ll give a couple shout outs you know the

guys over at sod medals you know the stuff that they’re doing on on on LinkedIn just with their short little updates um you know uh steuart Kagan out of New Zealand with his born Scrappy podcast is doing some really cool stuff and we really want to elevate those voices and and say and and really give you know selfishly from a marketing perspective shine a spotlight on those examples of what’s possible and what you can do and it’s not and it’s not these these guys are doing anything that unique or that complicated they’re just doing like well back to what you said earlier they’re willing to put themselves out there exactly and there’s it’s paying dividends for them um you know one one of the questions that I get from organizations like because occasion like I’ll get I get phone calls from members and stuff looking for you know advice on marketing and advice on what we’re doing what well what should we do here what should we do here and the truth of the matter is is I always tell you know be authentic in whatever it is that you do find your internal

Champion whoever it is I don’t care if it’s the guy who runs your material handler if he happens to like making little videos and vignettes and doing let him yeah and as long he’s as long obviously don’t let him get you in trouble but yeah exactly make sure that there’s a message that he’s that he’s putting out or she’s putting out that agrees with how you would like your company viewed right I mean he’s an extremist one way or the other one side of the aisle or the other like and but and you don’t agree and you don’t want your company to be known for that then be aware but I mean if it’s a passion for the industry let them go yeah but I mean and that’s where the authenticity matters more than anything else that I can you know because I mean you can you can you can spend you know hundreds of thousands of dollars over over producing something that looks fantastic and it will fall flat in your face and you wasted all that money if if it doesn’t align with what people with who you really are because people

are going to see that misalignment like that yeah um it’s way too easy um so um you know find your internal Champions um wind them up and let them go right I mean that’s that’s that’s you know great advice to Todd over at sad you know basically he you know young 23 year old guy and he gave Dan gave him the reins and was like go do it yeah get her done and it’s you know he’s he’s he’s he’s they’re killing it um both both on the business side and and and they’re growing their brand and doing it and and raising raising the level of their brand within their community and within the industry and and really Paving way for other people to look at and be like look well they they can do it you know they’re not they’re not staffed any different than me or like have necessarily more yards than me well then if they can do it so can I and that’s really what I want to shine a spotlight on as much as I can CU um I you know the more voices the better as far as I’m

concerned Yeah the more people you get doing it you know I’m and i’ I’ve said this before like you’re not you’re not taking away from me if you start a podcast on scrap right like at the end of the day it’s I mean there’s a there’s a hundreds of thousands of podcasts like I’m I’m encouraging people to do it because your story is different than mine your vision is different than mine your guest lists while there’s some crossover will probably be different than mine and I say if you’re National company tell a national story right get you know if you’re a you know Regional tell Regional if you’re a like a local company man be the biggest advocate for your area your geography that you’re you know that you’re doing business in be that guy be that girl be that be that company that supports and is that which then in allows people to support you and I think there’s a lot of ways to skin the cat and I think you’re you hit the nail on the head so well and and in terms of in terms of you know competition like I

I the world is not finite in any way shape or form the world is infinite yeah okay it is um you know there’s not there’s not a there’s there’s not a certain number of pieces of pie we we grow the pie especially the business world like that’s what absolutely the business world is different than sports sports there’s a there’s a winner and there’s a loser that whoever if you win by one point or whatever that is one run one whatever there’s there’s a winner and there’s a loser but in business multiple people can win and absolutely that’s the way it is I mean and and I think it has to be looked at that the same from a marketing standpoint as multiple people can win if you’re willing to do the work well and you know the last thought I’m I’m gonna give it to you last thought and it could be on marketing isy it could can be on anything you want this I’m it’s once you’re done you’re done but you get the thought anybody who’s scared of of of putting themsel out there um I want them to think number one

think about the opportunity cost if you don’t because if you’re not telling your own story it’s going to get told for you number and uh number two um the more voices is the better please please um you know flying under the radar is not going to work doesn’t work and if you think you are you’re lying to yourself as far as I’m concerned tell your story people tell your story absolutely thank you sir I appreciate you uh taking the time and as always I’m looking forward to seeing you down in Vegas uh come April right yeah everybody come on out it’s a it’s going to be a great time we got a we got a great lineup of you know education and stuff but more than anything else with the with the convention like there’s there’s no greatest greater business opportunity to expand your network in in a truncated amount of time there just isn’t all right man see you in April all right man all right bye