welcome to a scrap life a podcast solely focused on the hustlers Grinders operators and business owners who live and breathe the scrap metal industry every day here is your host Brett atart we have a special edition of scrap life uh guest host I’ll say Jennifer be I love it go ahead fire us off Jennifer and we’ve got a a pretty unique set of here we are actually not in Idaho for scrap life no no we are actually down in Houston Texas and we are at the fast Market steel and scrap North America 2024 and uh yeah it’s a little it’s a little busy here but we were managed to get uh a good friend in the industry down Randy Charles founder of Greenway steel and I thought it would be kind of a unique opportunity to talk about what’s happening in steel and scrap and what’s happening on the carbon front and being efficient and thought it’d be a good opportunity to introduce you to It Up Stand thank you for coming Randy I think ultimately like this is probably like the conference to kind of like for you cuz it’s both it’s like

a mix right it’s the input side and the output side and then and and I mean for those of you that don’t know just kind of give everybody a little bit of background on Greenway and kind of what you’re about and why a conference like this could be important to you well first thanks of course for the opportunity to get introduced um and talk a little bit about the steel business and something I could talk about for a long time yeah you know the interesting thing is Houston I me I’ve been in the steel business since 1989 more than a few years and been coming down to Houston probably every year in some way shape before we T Steel and in the business in particular you know with the energy markets and that’s why it’s really fascinating to be here today you know Green was steel was founded you know in support of sustainability across the metal supply chain and Manufacturing industry so the idea being that the steel mills are investing billions of dollars to decarbonize in industry and then manufacturers needing to meet a demand for sustainable products so Greenway steel is

essentially founded to connect those dots so it’s all about the supply chain uh it when you get right down to it sustainability at least from my perspective and I think from our perspective in the industry it’s really a laser focus on energy and energy consumption because ultimately the most efficient Mills most efficient processes are going to have you know probably the longest term sustainability and as well also provide for a lowest carbon footprint and being in Houston and part of the energy Market it’s it’s good to be here and to be part of that scene today at this conference which is one of the reasons where why the eaf furnaces came to be in the first place right was to was to create a more efficient product let low lower energy cost or right yeah that’s that’s really the cool thing about the industry in the US in particular steel industry in the US is that you know the eafs were you was really a focus on Energy Efficiency and efficiency of production and processing so of course it started with long products and then then new quet Yamato did it with near shape

casting for structural products and then ultimately they put the mill and Crawford F to to do a flat Road and you know really you fast forward to today and you take you know what was a laser focus on energy intensity and I mean every month we looked at energy intensity you know as long as I’ve been a new for 25 plus years and and then today you just convert it over to what emissions intensity and here you are at the lowest footprint and and what’s cool about that is that you know in Europe where a lot of this being driven by a regulated market you know with the emissions trading system here in the US you know in a voluntary Market you know it was done for all the right reasons it was done for cost efficiency um you know Energy savings and and that’s where we’re at today at what point does all the right reasons you know cuz I’m a business guy right dollars and cents are important right so what at what point does all the right reasons intersect with um actual efficiencies and cost reductions and and the things that

that go along with quote unquote all the right reasons yeah the well right at the end of the day at least in the US you know a free market Capital Society the right reasons for business ultimately are you know it’s about turning over a profit for your investors your stakeholders supporting your customers and your clients um and you know so it really is you know a laser focus again I I keep going back to this bit on energy and energy consumption so you know if you look at a world in which you know kilowatt hours and it’s electrification and it’s just going to be so critical to understand kilowatt hours and understand you know not at the end of the month what your power bill is in terms of dollars but but ultimately you know the Kil kilowatt hours of consumption and your options around um kind of reducing that becoming more efficient um and number one you’re going to save money right with a laser focus on Energy Efficiency uh but number two the other reason is that the supply chains and the end users are ultimately going to looking for people to

help them to create these Solutions around sustainable supply chain so I think that early on in this cycle as it develops in the years ahead you know if you’re out there in front of it you have the opportunity to take take on some market share that other people might not be associated with so there’s two components right there’s a cost savings and then there’s the market share side of the equation I think there are you if you will the right reasons for doing this which that makes more sense to me is if if it’s a market share driven if there’s an opportunity for you to grab market share that otherwise wouldn’t be available to you because you’re willing to just at the very minimum keep track of your carbon footprint right and making an effort to sustain it reduce it whatever that you know amounts to but it feels like it’s if it kind of reminds me in a way of when when we first got into the east scrap business and there was no um R2 certification there was no it was just a free CW right just if you had Electronics scraft

you had computers or whatever it was just those were high commodity value items and they went each way they went eight-way sideways right and Export containers all over and then R2 and Rios came in okay you need there’s some certification that needs to be attributed to if you’re going to do it quote unquote the the right way well so is there some similarities to that yeah well I I’ll reference Quality Systems in the 90s here but let me ask you if if you were one of the first you know if you will businesses or firms to jump onto that did it open up market share to you over some of the competition maybe being able to provide some certification or reliability in that regard I think what it did it and is it allowed the the bigger players to get bigger in the fact that it allowed them cuz they had the the bandwidth in place on the back end on the um the admin side to go through and go through the process because if you’ve ever looked at what it takes to be R2 certified or Rios like it’s a lot

of accounting you know ISO 9,000 and whatever certified and it really goes into that now I think if you were a a smaller player that decided to deploy the capital to to push into that it created a host of opportunity for you it opened up doors that you never would have had with companies that never would have given you a shot because of your size you’re like oh that little company can’t service me but then when you walked in and you had this certification and this certification it now allowed you a seat at the table that at a table you might not have ever been invited to if you hadn’t gone through that process yeah that’s a cool perspective and right when folks you know if you’re purchasing and you’re dealing with a lot of large companies that kind of have a leverage you’re always looking for smaller companies to come in and if they’re willing to do some of this these extra things that kind of give you know the buyer some kind of you know feeling of confidence that they’ve got a handle on managing their business that these certifications represent

yeah I mean you can make some progress but I’ll step back as you mentioned ISO and U you know in the 90s when the quality systems were implemented at the time and I was at Sparrow’s Point betham steel at the time and we implemented I think the first ISO 9000 system within the steel industry uh but you know a lot of folks were thinking well do I want to do this how do I do it and ultimately the automotive companies got on board and created the qs9000 and you can see over the years how it got implemented and really it you know you could jump in early and be part of that game or you know you could wait 10 years and get involved at which point it was becoming just you table Stak so to speak uh and in much the same way I see this developing around sustainability but I’ve got to tell you I think it’s bigger than just being part of the part of the supply chain because I think it opens up avenues for um Finance um number one it opens up avenues for finance if it’s green bonds

or those kind of things uh but number two I think It prepares you for a regulatory environment you know down the road sometime that could involve you know liability associated with carbon and Emissions I mean we see that developing now particularly in oil and gas but it’s only going to translate across the industry and of course around the world it’s happening yeah even if you take out the regulation side of it I think you’re going to see just some larger companies more or less heavily encouraging that from their suppliers uh there is a rumor that newor might go down that path for some of their raw material suppliers in the few upcoming years like that might be something that happens and so that’s you know why we’re kind of discussing it now of okay well how do you how do you handle that as a metal recycling facility how do you handle that with all the tons that come in and out of a yard every single month right like how how do you prepare for that it it’s that’s all part of what’s called scope three emissions your full value chain so scope

one and scope two that’s data day I mean you know your power bills you know the diesel you’re consuming you know what you’re spending and that’s your scope one and two emissions pretty straightforward I mean we simplified it with our Greenway calculator and tailored it for manufacturers and and in the steel industry and the supply chain um but really it’s a scope three emissions that create a lot of the controversy around this and that’s the full value chain and and that’s where people start to think hey this could get awfully complex and and I agree it can if you go down that rabbit hole but at some point you only have to really focus on what’s meaningful for the business and in our case the value chain and steel it’s going to be raw materials it’s going to be Logistics yeah purchase goods and Logistics and if you’re not already laser focused on those in the first place well then you’re missing out on an opportunity but you can convert that over to um you know the emissions and the footprint and and frankly you know there are three reasons why people do this

kind of thing you know first is the corporate account which you know might fall under a public company and SEC requirements or California requirements uh but number two and here’s where we see a lot of demand is um on Supply chains for a Global Steel and aluminum part supply chain say to a major automotive manufacturer tier one supplier go into it so you’ve got the the supply chain component of it what’s the footprint associated with it because you know these large International companies are are focused on hitting some Targets in the future uh but then number three and this is an interesting one too is you could look at it from a park uh a product marketing perspective and you could say hey look at I’m a domestic supplier here and here’s my footprint associate with a supply chain but you you you you might have an option from overseas um and they’re they’re telling you they had a lower cost but really when you look at it it’s a much higher footprint it truly is it a lower cost over the Long Haul is it more sustainable over the Long Haul and and

so those are three different ways you could look at this thing yeah I think there’s I mean I I I I see where you’re going with it I I see the value in it only because I think I recent had a meeting with a like a global cement uh producer right yeah and those guys have got I mean and he was he was giving me the numbers and I’m I’m not going to even try and repeat him because I’ll I’ll I’ll I’ll I’ll be incorrect but he was talking about that the uh concrete cement industry is responsible for x amount of the emissions right globally and so what they were trying to do is shrink their footprint as a company to XYZ and part of that was going to be their input material right whether they were going to go from you know say whole tires to a tdf material which is shredded like 3/4 inch right which is why we were having the conversation because currently we Supply them with whole tires and they’re saying well if you can make a tdf product we can burn this much more efficiency on an

efficiency front we can now take instead of this m tons we can double and if we can take tires as our input then we can basically carbon calculate that and we reduce our emissions by x amount towards our overall goal and I mean it’s so I guess where I’m going with that is is it’s it’s already here like and it’s and it’s going to affect the small medium-sized businesses more you know than you would think and and that and you can sit you can argue against the regulation and you can complain about it and and say you know we need new elected officials or whatever you want to do like but at the end of the day like it’s here here so you can probably the best way to do in my opinion is I’m more like let’s figure out a way to use it to our advantage versus try and Dodge it that’s right and I’m looking forward to your panel as well I mean that that’s why you’re here what’s what’s the full description of your of your panel that you’re on here you know it’s it’s ESG and Technology around

uh green steel and it was interesting how ESG got put into that that that subject because it really it’s it’s more Focus it seems to me my understand the panel what we want to talk to and if well you look at Boston metal and newor being part of that panel um really the focus on is on sustainability and and low carbon embedded products you know steel production is really where it’s been and it I got to go back to the the discussion on the the cement because that that that that’s one of those products you know not unlike steel that is globally recognized as being a high emitting kind of industry if you will yeah um now was that an international company European company operating in the United States corre yeah that’s where a lot of this is coming from because you know within the EU it’s just not can find to their borders and you make a good point because um ultimately they have to get to the bottom of their again their scope three emissions full value chain and that’s where you know the many of the smaller and mediumsized companies are

are going to be impacted because they’re going to come down and say hey you got to help us out we need to understand that it and it it really is not that complex at least we simplified it with what we do in our understanding of the greenhouse gas protocol so that was the whole purpose of it and but that’s only the base starting point is is you get to where you’re at with the accounting of your emissions but then the real fund begins when you start to focus on solutions for a do you do you see and and I’m and I’m pretty ignorant to this I don’t pretend to know a lot about it but do you see an opportunity down the road for small mediumsized recycling companies and I say recycling whether it’s scrap metal whether it’s plastic tires whatever an opportunity to produce and sell their the carbon credits that they’re that they would be potentially creating by operating a recycling business yeah it’s every jeder we got in Jenifer and I got into this uh project uh with the client and and helping to understand where those opportunities were for the

credits and really on it really was on um the refrigerants and the collection of the refrigerants now well there’s two components of what you could do with the refrigerants you could recycle them get them back in so that prevents more from being produced or you could destroy them now when you destroy them is when you actually get the credits otherwise you’re just recycling putting back into the market circularity and all that now people will want to purchase those because they don’t have the same footprint on the accounting standpoint when you recycle something yeah which you’re well aware of but that’s the real opportunity um I think that it number one that’s one opportunity and on the credit side a lot of people will ask me about that can I can I generate credits by you know my process of what I’m doing and you got to think about well you’re really recycling something you’re selling it back into the market the opportunity exists that um your clients and your customers are are actually reducing their carbon footprint by by purchasing your product so there’s more of a that’s more in my mind that’s the

bigger opportunity is marketing opening opening up markets for your for your goods right think about what you could do your clients could basically at the end of the year send him a note and say hey by the way here’s how much carbon you saved with all the business you did with us you know you a certificate and yeah you know I can see I can see component of this because and and where you’re going with that too is the reason I was talking to another company and they handle all the uh because there’s a there’s a financial incentive in there somewhere potentially down the road and the financial incentive what what they were what he was basically explaining to me at that time was because we were and this is this is just like a probably a PO personal question than anything was on the tire side because we are actually taking a waste destroying it all the way down to create a fuel that could be burned and that’s where they were kind of trying to back into the the credit side but I think but ultimately they’re going to look at us

as a key supplier for that material if we can provide it you know at certain amount of volume just because we have the ability to produce something that they need to lower their carbon flip that’s right I think that’s the bigger opportunity for recycling companies in general without a doubt but hey let’s keep we’ll take a step back to the idea around a credits this is again a voluntary Market the United States right yeah so I mean if someone’s willing to buy your credit that you produce by all means produce it and sell it yeah but now the question if I were if I were talking to a a partner client of mine and we were looking at some credit for some offsetting solutions I mean I might be skeptical of some of them and I might say you might not want to go down you know I mean but that’s some of what you know the issues around credits right now if you go back five and 10 years people are starting to look back at some of these nature-based credits and saying did they really do what they were supposed to

do and a lot of people are saying yeah probably not um but I I think as time goes on the the accounting of them and the technology behind them and people are going to start to say yeah I get that one yes that really is generally doing something positive and doing well um and often times you know here in the US I think in particular we’ll probably look at some engineered solutions that yeah it absolutely is doing what it’s supposed to do so it’ll have some value you know it there’ll be a lot of value probably more expensive the technology behind it but it’ll have value and people will be willing to invest in it um but that’s the beauty of a voluntary Market you know here in the US as opposed to a regulated market you think about a regulated market right you want to meet the minimum and maybe look for loopholes y okay in a voluntary Market here in the US you you you you really want to do what’s right for your stakeholders for your team for your clients and your but it now it might be a little more

difficult complex to make those decisions because you don’t have guard rails so to speak you don’t have a price for carbon perhaps um but at the end of the day you’re really analyzing your business and your clients what their demands are what their needs are and you’re doing what’s right for the business and and so it could be more efficient in some respects being a voluntary Market you know it’s fascinating time man I I you know I’ve been in steel business for a long time and I got to tell you what what we are seeing transpire is um it just got me energized in a way that you know 30 years in steel and I’m still looking at and say this is just a fascinating industry to be a part of and that was going to be my next question was for you is how does a a Steelman go from making steel being involved in steel steel distribution steel manufacturing to Greenway steel and working on the the carbon side what’s the what what created the opportunity or what created the the move for you they um I thank you that’s that’s a

cool question and um it it was a good friend of mine that took on the chief commercial role guy by the name of Mark buet took on the chief commercial role um with H2 green Steel in Sweden and uh and I got to understanding know what he was doing I started to research a little bit about this hydrogen and and introducing hydrogen in steel making then I started to understand you know some of what came out of the Paris Accords relative to emissions reductions and some of what was going on how steel was a component of that and I started filling up notebooks um on research and and ultimately started writing what are now my Greenway articles um and really it was just going to be a blog spot but then um started talking to carbon Traders around the um country got introduced to Mobius risk group um who I have a lot of respect for now as a strategic partner in in my company and um you know one thing led to another and I really got an understanding that across the supply chain people were going to need help with um understanding

this carbon accounting and you know it’s at some way shape or form ultimately the company’s going to represent Supply chains and and there’s going to be like I said we’re here to connect the dots and and in some way shape or form we’re going to represent Supply chains and I don’t know what that’s going to look like and I got some ideas of what it can look like but it it’s all going to be a a part of creating the most efficient Supply chains that ultimately are the most sustainable and look all my career in steel has been focused on new technology and new products MH and and now we’re in just such a broad scope of new technology of Entrepreneurship right like you don’t never know where it’s going to go you’re just kind of you start here and you think the Market’s here and then and Jennifer and I know this all too well and we and maybe the Market’s over here but you’re still just kind of trying to figure fure out like where you’re you know there’s a fit you know there’s a need and there’s going to be a

need and it’s just how do you like f that feel that need and where are you where are you the need needed the most because that’s where there’s the most opportunity for your business it’s been referred to me uh as a pivot you pivot the business but let me ask you though um your experience you’ve been doing that a lot longer than me I now I’ve been doing I guess when introducing prod products you know to our clients and our customers when I when steel industry but you there’s so many opportunities that start to come to you man I got so much time to take them all I know we know that Jennifer and I have had this conversation many of times on the marketing side and it’s and a lot of it is what do they I there’s like a quote out there and I should know it but I don’t but it was like where’s the you know like where’s the best place to set up a hot dog stand you know in New York City or over here and they and and they basically just say like none of the above

it’s a starving market right wherever there’s people starving they’re willing to pay the most because there’s an opportunity there that exists the most so it’s not necessarily the best location as much as like where does the market the hungriest for something that you can provide and I feel like for you like as As Time evolves you’re starting to identify where people could use you the most and your your your services the most and that’s where you’ll have the most success It’s a combination of things you make a good point out um early on folks were okay now we got this data what do we do with it and they want to start creating sustainability reports and I said that’s a little broader than my expertise where we’re going to go with but it kept coming back so we partnered up with uh macallen actually a Texas based firm um not the whiskey that’s next we’ll work we’re going to work on the whiskey side next but they uh we’ll going reduce their foot man but they um but now we bring those services to our client so yeah really creating the sustainability report but

it’s all about the message and but you got to do it in a way that meets some of the liabilities and the legal framework around reporting this kind of thing and that’s what they’re experts at doing so we Parton up and we bring those Solutions uh but I Jennifer we were actually um involved in a pretty cool technology side of the equation um some folks had reached out to us looking for a sustainable supply of a Metals product small diameter stainless tube they were having a hard time finding it they’re buying it from Alibaba right bring and they said we got to have a domestic and uh and it was Jennifer that actually pointed Us in the right direction I was like put me in coach what we’ve got recycled materials here we’ve got eafs here like we can find you a much lower carbon footprint product yeah and state side and state side do business domestically where there’s opportunity and like help each other out right and I think that’s the biggest thing that you know we’re all trying to do here even at a conference like this right like you’re trying to

meet introduce generate connections and so you can down the road you’re like if somebody comes to you with a question or something an opportunity like I know the person for that and I know someone at least I know a good starting point for someone for you to talk to that’s what I love that’s why we’re willing to fly from Idaho to Houston and Jennifer from California on 3 hours for reason right I mean yeah cuz we want that and it’s important yeah it it really is a very interesting career pivot that you’ve taken your Decades of experience and you saw where this is headed and you just put up your hand you’re like I can do this I can help you out yeah well myself and my team of course um you know with um Emily and April who are also here um director of operations and director of client success I mean you’re talking 40 plus years again in the steel industry working with our with working with our customers and our partner in the supply chain um and you know so many of the people that we’re working with or people I’ve

worked with my entire career were just I mean I’m not talking about the day-to-day movements in the price of steel like I only got done for 30 years we’re talking about you know you know picking up in order or a different product or developing a new well we are developing a new product but yeah it it’s just we’re bringing Solutions ultimately to people that you know we’ve worked with for a long time I mean you got to admit that this business is pretty cool when you work with people for a long time you bring them Solutions and you develop trust with them and you find that you know you can make some good things happen it’s it’s that’s part of the fun and working right how do we meet Jennifer you and I I mean years ago I used to uh try to buy your scrap during my new core DJJ days that’s how long we’ve known each other that was a few companies ago8 yeah 2008 well that was an interesting time it was a wild time easy it’s an easy time to remember it was a good year and a

bad year all wrapped into one the best year you ever had the worst year you ever had oh man I got stories yeah I’ve got stories well we appreciate you sitting down with us we appreciate you taking the time and and we look forward to you know your conversation ESG aside more on I’m more interested in the the stuff that’s in your wheelhouse right that that part of it I’m I’m I’m super excited to hear about um and looking forward to just seeing you know who’s who’s at this conference this this year yeah me too I I appreciate again uh the opportunity to meet with you um and to chat a little bit about you know what what we’re doing what we’re about and of course more people at the folk folks that we’ll meet here at the conference and thanks so much um for your support in what we’re doing absolutely it’s been a lot of fun working with you since we’ve been introduced Jennifer I I I really enjoy it well I I really appreciate what you guys are putting out there what you’re working on it definitely is a direction that

our industry is heading towards and you’re on the Forefront of it for those that are listening or watching at home you can find Randy Charles on LinkedIn you can go to Greenway steel.com you can find him online if you want to get in touch and learn a little bit more about what he’s working on so thank you very much I appreciate it appreciate it all right