welcome to bets on the future where we highlight the various career paths in the electrifying Metals World from the vehicle you ride in to the bridge holding and up metals are everywhere why not in your career too I’m Jennifer BSS a Metals industry veteran with almost 20 years experience here to highlight these incredible career paths As Told by the women who are living them welcome to today’s episode of bets on the future Our Guest today is a true Trailblazer in the world of metal refining and recycling meet s pierce the territory manager at the global company BASF where she is responsible for overseeing the entire Midwest Region’s Catalyst and Platinum Group Metals refining needs but that’s not where the story ends Sandy is a boundary Pusher constantly venturing Beyond her job description into the exciting Realms of electric vehicle recycling Rare Earth element recycling electronics recycling and a host of other Innovative projects outside of her professional life she is a dedicated mother striving to provide the best for her daughter she’s a passionate Community contributor actively involved in various organizations including the relaunch of the isra women recycling Council in 2018 and she

works tirelessly to make a positive impact on her local community stay tuned for an inspiring conversation with Sandy Pierce as we delve into our multifaceted journey of professional excellence and community service within the metals industry this week on bets on the future we have a friend of mine from the industry Sandy Pierce she has recently joined BASF which she can go into detail further about how this publicly traded company is Making Waves in the Metal’s world she is a territory manager for BA BASF and I am very honored that she is here today with with us so thank you so much Sandy for for joining us thanks Jennifer thanks for having me here I wanted to get a little bit into this you know spoil alert behind the scenes you know we’re we’re talking a little bit back and forth um uh before we hit the record button and for those who are unfamiliar with your company do you mind just sharing a little bit about what you do and what you’re a part of at BASF because it’s a very large company and I would say most people are not familiar with it

correct yeah I would say so a lot of times when I go to uh recycling events and I said I work with BASF now people are looking at me and say oh great and they just give me this really weird smile so I’m a officially the territory manager for BF metals and I work in their ecms which is environmental Catalyst and Metal Solutions division um what that means is I provide refining Services of Platinum Group metals and also sell precious metal Catalyst um which is a you know when I say catalyst most people are like wait and you still have this stare right you’re like what is catalyst but catalyst is used literally everywhere in our lives and but it’s a niche business just this metal business that we’re in you know if you go talk to someone about say stanless 304 316 we look at each other and be like oh yeah I know those I know the 409s I can those numbers around but most people will be looking at us like you guys are all crazy we don’t know what you’re talking about so what is catalyst um the example of

catalyst that I could give is probably most people heard of catalytic converter which is used in the emission control system in a vehicle so what catalus is doing in our day-to-day life it’s basically a substance that speed up the rate of a chemical reaction so in a vehicle you will have harmful Humes like um carbon monoxide um hydrocarbons and things like that in your vehicle so with that catalytic converter in the car in the emission exhaust system it basically exchanged that harmful Sy harmful gas into something that’s less harmful into um more like carbon dioxide nitrogen water so that’s how that’s an example of like environmental Catalyst but there’s also industrial Catalyst that is used in um prochemical companies and to will use it for processings like cracking and other things like that um The Catalyst that I sell will be used in say silicone industry you know those puppets if you have kids yeah those are made by silicone and also like phone cases they are the silicone so there’s Catalyst that’s used in those silicon see like most people will be like I don’t know c c Ashby Catalyst but

those are the catalysts that that’s needed to to make those um products I find that so interesting and I can only imagine from from your perspective being able to see your work now in everyday life right like the the poets that you you mentioned that yeah we have a few of those in our home as well it it’s got to be quite a cool feeling and also probably really interesting to share with your friends and family what you’re what you’ve been working on very cool I mean I think in the metal industry is a very humble in experience I feel like every day I’m learning something new I didn’t come in here knowing that oh yeah silicone of course catalyst is exist in that it’s more you know you you learn about it you read about it you talk to the right people um it’s it’s just a very phenomenal business to be in and I I feel blessed to be in this industry and get surrounded by a lot of people that are great and knowledgeable as well so I have to ask do you have like materials engineering degree do you have

like a Metallurgy degree like how how do you get into what you’re doing today you know was there a school for this like how did this happen think there’s a school of metal recognition I think there is I was say a lot of the people in BASF company they do have a chemical degree um they do have engineering but um I have a mathematic background so none of that is related to chemistry um but I think it’s more about my curiosity so prior to joining the recycling industry prior to joining BASF I was working in pharmaceutical industry I was working in electronic industry so none of those are metal related it’s more of I’m curious I’m D I’m driven and I like to get myself in trouble in The Innovation space so I look for different things to do when I got into a company I used to work for in the recycling space I still was the same way even with that company and I was trading base metal um your copper low grade copper your stanless I find those base metal interesting so I learned them but then what I realized is

base metal is um a very matured industry I think there’s some very uh um good companies and their Century uh companies they’ve been around for decades and people know everybody so it’s it’s exciting but then I think a lot of it becomes relationship building and then it becomes transactional and I like the Innovation space so I started looking into all the new stuff right so you look at the electric vehicle you look at the Consumer Electronics you know scrap or electronic recycling kind I got myself into those and that’s how BASF and I connected you know we know each other obviously but we’ve never um actually lived in the same state worked with the same company it’s just been through business and organization so um have you always been in Michigan like you know has your career you know moved me moved you around a little bit so so far that that’s no um I I guess I’ve always lived in Michigan since I started working um but I my education is from Purdue University so I was in Indiana for for a bit when I came to the states um I initially come

to the US so I was not born and raised here I was born and raised in Taiwan I moved here really not by my choice well my parents said hey you know what you need to learn English so see you later and I’m here to learn English so that’s how I got here but um I got a math degree started teaching mathematics actually here at a university in Michigan oh wow and then got into pharmaceutical the pharmaceutical industry that I was in um it’s more of a distribution ship and it’s more of dietary supplement industry so I was importing and materials from CH China and Japan and other places so I used to travel to China quite a bit through that industry um in the metals World though I would say there’s still a lot of opportunity in travel too um there’s you know you know this Jennifer because you are involved with the as well and is right so all this organization is global organization and National so I do um in terms of territory management here I do get to travel around states to States um but Metals move globally um most

of the metals some of them right go to Asia and some of them stays here so but I know that there’s a lot more talk in terms of politics and that’s another area that Metals touch that people are probably like what I thought this is just buying and selling but there’s a lot of politics that goes around um environmental control how do I be n zero right all those are the buzzwords and new buzzword that people start talking about new phrases what’s the ESG what’s sustainability and recycling metal space have everything to do with it yes yes it’s really interesting how before I got into this and I got into this because of a career fair in college um I have a finance degree like shouldn’t be here right and seeing how Metals touches everything and everywhere so when you start looking around your everyday life like I’m looking at my windows I’m looking at my desk like you know the phone the computer that you know we’re both talking on you start to really recognize how important medals is in in an everyday life and yet nobody really thinks about it from a

career perspective and so it’s really cool to see um all the organizations and associations out there trying to kind of pull that together um from the you know just as a like a quick Timeout on all the acronyms we just threw out there uh the bir is the Bureau of International Recycling they are essentially the international um well I’d say more so outside the US um International uh Association that really ties together all of the recycled materials industry and then there’s isra which is the Institute of scrap recycling Industries and they are headquartered here in DC um they are essentially the the standard when we start talking about the commodity specifications for any of the recycled materials that are out there and they do incredible work and you start to realize how it gets tied into politics how it gets tied into to you know everyday life the infrastructure the economy the environment I mean the metals industry you know obviously unbiased is a pretty great career choice that can combine both your personal and professional passions I don’t think you’re biased I think it’s a pretty great industry too yeah right well there

might be might be some bias there too um what are you working on at BASF these days um I have noticed that you know you you know part of your your territory management um you know you’re you’re making connections you know in in a variety of different ways what what’s the what’s the next thing that you’ve got on your radar so at BASF kind as you mentioned it’s a bigger company so there’s different divisions and I think I am blessed to be in different divisions and participate in some other opportunities um here and there but my primary duty is really to service accounts in my territory and I offer two Services I refine metals and I also sell some of the metals out after refine you have metals that that that we used to produce another new products so we sell those um precious metal catalysts as well so those are the two services that I that’s my duty really um so kind of like you said working with accounts to make sure they’re understanding their refining services and then also selling into different various Industries um for purchas metal Catalyst products but there

are several other divisions of Bas that that are looking into Innovation so there’s a lot of talk about U rear Earth metal recycling smelting what does that look like and also um the battery recycling space here battery recycling Space is really outside of the ecms ecms is a division I’m under which is an environmental Catalyst Metal Solutions um the B the battery space is outside of outside of that but because I am a chair for the EV working group for isra I am very involved in it’s funny because I just love it so much I love that Innovation space so much and I didn’t want to give it up so when I join pasf I mentioned to them you know this is something that that I agree to do for E that I’m the working chair and I would like to carry this through to make sure that the recycling industry um gets covered on electric vehicle Recycling and when I say electric vehicle recycling I’m not just looking at battery piece I’m looking at the vehicle as a whole and I think it’s important to look at it as a whole because there’s

so much feris and non feris and also say plastic and other type of material that is in a car that we don’t normally think about at least right now you know when people think about EV battery is the first thing poping in their head right yes so I just that’s just a space that I really enjoy um working on so I do I do bring in a lot of our battery team members into some of the conversation that I have so that’s why I said you know I feel kind of blessed to be able to touch several different divisions even though some of them might not directly tie to my day-to-day um job I hate to say it’s not my job that’s just not a phrase that I don’t typically use I’m with you on that I’m much more the if there’s a problem how do we solve it even if it’s not specifically like within my Lane but it’s going to affect like my you know travel time right or right like so how do we get the right people in the right room and I think you’re honestly one of

the the the best people to do this because you you’re very well connected very knowledgeable and you understand that you have to get the right people in that room to have the conversations so it it’s it’s a very good perspective because you’re absolutely right the the term EV people think battery when in reality that battery is attached to something called a car or a vehicle right and there are a lot there’s there’s issues like lightweighting so lightweighting for those unfamiliar is essentially when you use um similar strength materials that are lighter to make the car more efficient right so a lot of times when we take a look at Vehicles they switch from steel or feris products they switch it over to non-f feris Aluminum Products you know for a variety of Reason including lightweighting getting better um MPG getting better you know miles out of the battery and your experience coming from a variety of experiences is perfect to help initiate those conversations to get those people that might only stay in their Lane to start talking to you know maybe the carpool lane um at some point to see if there’s

some better options thanks when you’re looking at the the next Innovations in our industry um is there anything that kind of comes to mind um you obviously work for a very forward thinking company at this point and obviously without don’t disclose what anything proprietary that they’re working on but I Envision that you probably have ideas of what could happen down the road what somebody could be a part of in our industry 5 10 15 years from now this is probably more my personal perspective if you if you will um you know if I if I look at and obviously I don’t have a crystal ball because if I do I wouldn’t be working for anybody I’ll be a school lunch lady that’s my retire dream job just saying I love that I love that but if I if I’m looking ahead and you know if you look at the politics and where we are in this world I guess um a lot of news in China talking about re earth metals restricting that restricting say graphite um I think all those are areas of interest for us for the next Innovation right if you’re

looking at just in the US what can I do here now if you want to say develop if I want to develop myself say in China or somewhere then those could still be potential area to get involved in as well um I would think electronic is another good area because if you think about it we’ve been driving a computer for a long time so and you know I’m just looking around my desk right now I have two phones here and a computer here a couple Chargers there right so all those use circuit boards so that’s another area of um metals that I think will attract good attention um and I think steel is not going away steel always going to be there right your key elements of metals like your copper aluminum those based metals are always going to stay so even if you’re not thinking of innovative there are some key base elements that won’t go away so as a company how do we strengthen that area so if you don’t want to get into anything new what I would think is well what can I make what I have better and different

the the steel reference really hits home for me because obviously the steel industry has been around for for quite a while it’s the majority of my my background and yet I see so much potential for the Next Generation to come in and make adjustments make improvements because it hasn’t made huge adjustments or changes in the past 10 20 30 years right I mean there’s been some initiative you know especially in the United States we’ve been switching more from integrated to eafs but I think there’s so much more down the road um you know possibly creating the Amazon of Steel selling right like there’s so much more technology that could get applied into our industry into the metals industry that there really is a lot of opportunity for for the Next Generation for folks to to you know see what we’ve been doing and then put some fresh eyes on it absolutely I will say though this is one concern that I have for some of the next Generations is that I I I consider myself not so old school but sometimes I could be but if you really look at the Next Generation I’m

thinking my daughter too you know she will sit there look at a video and now if it circles once or twice all three times she’s going somewhere else yes right I think sometimes patience is a virtue and I’m and I’m saying that not because I have it this is one of those do as I say not as I do it’s I think patient is is a key right I think knowing that okay you can make a difference making a change just us Dei initiatives people talk about it company talk about it and I think some people will stay make those initial steps of changes and then they don’t see it happen right away and they get discouraged and they leave yes and I think I I think there is something to say about staying and trying to make things work but at the same time it’s also knowing yourself well enough so that way you know you’re seeing what you really want what can what can you exchange what can you wait right I think it’s important to know that I think you and I kind of talked a little bit about you know

my my Minds side a little bit a lot of times I want my yes to be yes my no to be no so intentionally knowing what is lifegiving for me me what is not and knowing some of those things is important and I think sometimes in our in our Generations my daughter’s generation for example I think sometimes they don’t slow down enough to really answer those questions do I really want this do I not want this and I think that’s sometimes that’s the key to be able to know what you stand for what you want and then choose to wait so yes I I’ve been there i’ I’ve definitely T tested my own patient do I want to stay stay in a situation right do do I you know because the change wasn’t immediate um I mean it’s it’s a big reason of of why we’re doing this podcast currently right there there is about 30% of the manufacturing industry are females um by 2030 the women and manufacturing association says that it will probably be 35% will be females when in the Bureau of Labor sta statistics the US government’s um Bureau of

Labor Statistics says that there are 57% of the labor force are females so we have quite a ways to go when it when it comes to attracting more females to our industry and I do appreciate companies that are posting their de and diversity Equity inclusion um publicly putting it out there um it will take some time for some of those efforts to to take hold right it doesn’t just change everyn night but I think having incredible women like yourself in positions um of leadership of showcasing what you’re doing online uh if you’re listening please give Sandy a follow on LinkedIn connect with her on there um she’s an incredible resource she posts really knowledgeable articles and and thought pieces on there and so having great examples like yourself I think will encourage the next generation a to have a little bit more patience to see that okay we’re sticking around we’re enjoying what we’re doing maybe I would like that career as well thank you I should give a plug a shout out woman in recycling at isra as well right so that’s just a council that we put together and I’m currently cheering

that just to bring more women in the recycling industry and highlighting what are some benefits and mentoring our next generation and the woman in recycling is not just for women I’d like to say that you know men’s are welcome for a lot of those because truth to be told just like you said only 30 some per are women so we do need a lot of allies people that believe that this is important and help us to get there I recently had a mentoring meeting I went to my mentor and we kind of talk about this and she made a comment that I remember M and this is something that I’m currently working on because she made the comment and she said a lot of times women in our not just in our industry she and I can I in a different industry she’s more of a manufacturing industry um not that manufacturing is different than recycling but she’s uh in the different type of manufacturing if you will anyway so she made a comment about how when she was in the industry and she was looking for mentorship and what she realizes once you

get to a certain point in your career it becomes like you’re good and then there’s but there is an underlying but not good enough for the next role and no one will be able to tell you why what is that so she made a comment of it’s so important to find someone in your career that will level with you that will provide basically a candid conversation and help you move forward and I think that’s very important and I’m looking I’m looking for for those people in my life to to level with me to help pushing me to be better each and every day and I am so glad that I have friends like Jennifer and many others in our recycling industry and I think you know people once they get into the metal industry they’ll realize there’s a lot of good people there’s a lot of bad people too but there’s a lot of good people yes yes a lot more good people I would say uh we always get you know every industry has a few bad apples f whatever but generally speaking um we’re we’re a pretty great group of people um

your your your comments earlier reminded me I was in um Houston uh earlier last week um for the awmi Texas industry dinner aw minus the association of women in the metals industry and your comment about how women and recycling awmi women and Manufacturing all of these associations they’re open to both males and femal females um and we do need men as allies to to help support um and I thought it was very interesting because out of the room that we were in last week there were several men there was a good good percentage of of men that were in the room and I had an opportunity to speak with several of them afterwards and one of them made the comment he’s there for his daughters and and he’s probably around our age to be honest so like he has daughters that are around our kids’ age um so Elementary School age and so he said that he’s here for his daughters to to help create a culture within the industry that his daughters would be comfortable in that he would feel comfortable with them in and I thought it was a very powerful moment

of this this is exactly what we’re trying to accomplish here we’re not talking about taking away seats we’re talking about pulling up seats to the table making it more inclusive making it a industry that really helps individuals expand and at the end of the day that only helps everyone else when there are new ideas in the room new discussions new ideas come to the table and can really happen at that point that benefits us all absolutely I don’t want to take up to too much of your time CU I know you also have to get back to work but is there anything else that you would want to share about what you’re working on what you’re hoping for in in the Next Generation how to get into the industry anything along those lines any last topics that we may not have hit on yet one more thing that maybe we could add is help people to realize the importance of networking so we already touched on um basically building your network mentors and things like that um but I think networking is a skill and it doesn’t come very easy and I think some

people will say well you know if I’m introverted then I can’t Network that’s not the case because good news is that networking is a skill if it’s a skill it can be learned which is amazing and wonderful and I think a lot of people I think networking is oh well we’re just taking time away from work and chitchatting but it’s it’s not right like we don’t have to have a conversation to get something out of somebody correct I’m not having a conversation with you right now because I want this to be posted on LinkedIn to get more connections I don’t I don’t really need need that because I Network outside of this already right yep so I think sometimes it’s important to connect with someone just because you want to be a friend yes and I think in terms of networking why is that important because metal industry kind of as I mentioned earlier it’s very Niche business you don’t want to burn Bridges you know I say you but really I’m thinking out loud you know I don’t want to burn any Bridges when I’m in this metal industry as a very small

family almost like a family like environment so I think networking goes a long way when people know you and they know your reputation and they can trust you I think that speak very loud loudly about who you are what you do and what you stand for and I think Jennifer this is another reason that I respect you so much is that you a very good networking person you’re a very good networker you have a lot of connections in this industry so people know you and people respect you so when you switch position jobs or when you have a new idea such an example as this podcast you got people supporting you right yes it’s not easy to do yes I I definitely appreciate my network um with this podcast so thank you it it um you know it’s a great way to go out on this um because you can find Sandy Pierce BASF territory manager on LinkedIn um she’s a she’s again we talked about this a really great individual to know um I have a very similar mindset um I like to network because I love connecting people and I also love

learning from people what you do is not something that ever I ever thought would come across my radar and I find it fascinating to learn about what you’re doing and you know you’re constantly in the back of my mind of like okay when I’m at a conference or I’m talking to someone is there somebody that like I couldn’t introduce Sandy to you know would would that be a good conversation would that help out her business um and so networking can be um mentorship it can be um friendship it can and yes it can be you know Business Development opportunities it can be all of those things and I I agree with you I highly encourage people to to get a little bit outside their comfort zone and and network a little bit um more than what they’re used to and I mean I think everybody defines success differently so just because networking is is not say somebody else’s strong suit I’m saying somebody else because I really do like networking but I’m thinking of people that might be listening to this podcast you were like oh man I don’t want to do any networking

fine yeah you know we have to Define our own successes what does success look like I think you know I don’t know who asked me this one time what are some skills that you think you need to be successful and then I thought to myself I can tell you the skill skill that I think I need to go to my next step but you have to be the one identify what does success mean to you first and then your skill set might be different than my skill set yes if you really want to be a good analyst you really want to be good at numbers you really want to be good at the software that get you there then maybe learn the programming languages that will be the next skill set right those are the hard skill that you should have and if you really want to good procurement and a company you’re looking for really want a certificate in the procurement space then that would be a good skill set that you want to go after so like I think it’s really understanding taking the step back and understanding what is my definition

my personal definition of success and doesn’t have to be the same for everybody but know that metal industry is very diverse and there is procurement in the metal industry we need analytical people all the time we need people that do the finance do the numbers we need people that do aural we do need we need people that do the forecasting the inventory not just the sales people so there’s a lot of different areas um that someone can get into and it’s exciting when we have the new voices and new eyes to see different things thank you so much Sandy that’s a really wonderful note to to end on here you can find Sandy Pierce on LinkedIn and BASF and thank you so much for for being our guest on bets on the future this week I really really appreciate it it’s it’s great to call you a friend it’s really wonderful to to have known you for for these years and I really encourage all the best for your continued success in the metals industry thanks Jennifer I’ll see you soon right in a couple weeks yes