welcome to bets on the future where we highlight the various career paths in the electrifying Metals World from the vehicle you ride in to the bridge holding it up metals are everywhere why not in your career too I’m Jennifer Betts a medals industry veteran with almost 20 years experience here to highlight these incredible career paths As Told by the women who are living them this week on best in the future we have an incredibly educated and knowledgeable battery scientist and engineer who whom I discovered and connected with through the power of social media Jill pastana helps teams develop design and deploy safe reliable energy storage Technologies as a Battery Technology expert as a batteries physicist and engineer she spent the last decade learning and developing Battery Tech from the atomic to gigafactory level now she shares her insights to accelerate in inovation on a global scale through Consulting at enture and on her YouTube channel across the nane her clients are Visionaries in their Industries seeking to innovate toward a shared mission of a sustainable future Jill I just want to thank you so much for hopping on this podcast thank you so much

for having me I’m so excited to be here well I do have to say the way that we met was probably a little untraditional or maybe it’s the way of the future of how we met I feel like it’s how I meet all my besties these days because they’re talking about really interesting stuff online and I’m like I like what she’s saying let’s be friends yes you know what’s interesting is I got online and I started researching about metals and I’ve been in the metal space you know a very similar amount of time as you and I don’t know why it just it it never really dawned on me about the battery space you know it always seems like that’s such a futuristic space but yet it’s very correlated and it’s it you know it’s a part of metals and I feel like batteries and metals are pretty much very similar in general just how the public sees the technology because they’re the bane of our everyday existence like we rely on this technology every single day to the point where it’s almost like invisible to us we don’t really notice it but I

love how like on your post how you’re sharing all these Metals things you see on your day-to-day in the junkyards you visit it’s like I feel like that in the battery world or if I’m out and about and it’s like oh a stationary storage system like you just notice it more the more that you’re in those Industries or just interested in that technology yes it’s it really is you can’t unsee it at this point so I have to like go back a little bit like what point in your life like how did you come to the realization like that’s what I want to do like what what what sparked you oh I like where you’re going with this so loving the puns yes so I didn’t realize there was such a thing as a battery scientist until I was actually leaving College like I had gotten my Physics degree I was on my way out and I happened a a professor was like come work in my lab it’ll be fun I was like okay you know and he was focused on fuel cell technology on electrochemistry and I I didn’t know

what fuel cells were before joining the group and uh doing that research and then later on working with NASA Jeet repulsion lab in their electrochemical Technologies Group I just fell in love with electrochemistry and as I learned more about fuel cells all of a sudden I started learning oh wait batteries are an electrochemical energy storage and conversion device like I didn’t realize beyond the double a AAA that I was using on a daily basis that people actually studied and like developed this techn and so it was like at that point where I just couldn’t put down the papers on Battery Technology I loved how it intersected with my passion for sustainability and creating a green environment and also just it’s so incredibly fascinating all the atomic nanoscale processes that go on inside of batteries so all of those my interests were like combined in this one device and I went I want to be a battery scientist it it’s really quite incredible too because it seems like when you were getting into the industry it almost felt like that was the moment when a lot of Investments were starting to pick up is that

probably is or like from the outside looking in yeah you know it was even before then it was right when Tesla was releasing the model S for the first time you know the first version around it was like 2012 when I realized I had this interest 2013 and so it was something that people were talking about like electric vehicle technology but to try to find resources on how do you become a battery scientist or how do you learn about batteries like what is this technology it I couldn’t find hardly anything it was really challenging to just figure out you know how do I become a battery scientist what do I need to study in graduate school or do I even need to go to graduate school so yeah the resources nowadays and the investment that has come really strongly I would say like 2016 2017 and Beyond it’s just been accelerating like crazy and we’ve seen that on you know the recycled material side I mean there’s been five six billion dollar investments in single companies recently and just trying to get the raw materials to come back into the manufacturing of some of

those those battery manufacturers so I can only imagine what you’ve seen on the development side of things to try and get those Technologies even even further totally I mean we’re seeing billions of dollars unprecedented amount of money coming in through the inflation reduction act through the chips act through iig you know all of these Federal policies just in the United States we’re talking about here Europe has the European battery initiative or battery directive excuse me that’s funneling a lot of policy into developing the battery industry there but in general in the United States is what all Focus because we’re here um there’s so much public investment money that it creates the opportunity for private investment to come in as well so we’re seeing billions of dollars in federal funding as well as in private funding flooding in companies from Europe and all over the world really are trying to figure out how they can come to the US just to get some of this money that’s flowing into this industry so and we’re seeing this like you said raw materials all the way through to recycling back battery manufacturing we’re seeing it in for

Ev incentives you know for even consumers to buy electric vehicles so it’s across the full battery value chain and there was some other organization that you have also introduced me to kind of along this this same lines it’s also based here in the United States because there has been a lot of investment that’s been made here the Volta Foundation um it has four 40 50,000 members now um car to explain a little bit about what the Volta Foundation is yes so it’s the I don’t know if it’s the industry’s largest battery Community but it might be at this point uh like you said there’s over 50,000 members and they come out with an annual report just Google Volta Foundation battery report and it is a gold mine of battery knowledge from the investment Landscape Company landscape technology everything but they also have like community events a monthly they call it a used to be battery brunch now it’s battery forum and they also have battery Pub in Europe and Battery Roundtable in China but there usually at every battery conference but it’s really to cultivate a community of battery experts and people

who are passionate about you know making this technology successful globally and reaching those sustainability targets it’s it when I first got introduced to it it was kind of um a little bit overwhelming to to realize that there was an organ organization that was this large that had this kind of reach the I I don’t know what the exact number in terms of how many companies are are member uh companies at that point but I mean it was a lot yeah definitely you know there’s I think what’s really driving the interest in organizations like that is there’s a Workforce shortage for battery expertise across companies and so all of these Automotive oems or sell manufacturers are basically fighting over different Talent so any way they can get their you know job descriptions out there and and promote their companies they’re going to want to do and that’s a big reason why a lot of companies are partnering with Volta Foundation or becoming a member organization but there’s also other benefits just in the community that it cultivates an exchange of knowledge and just being in the know you know because a lot of the information

to learn about the industry isn’t necessarily publicly available and you really need to tap into your network or tap or work for one of these companies where you can learn on the job well and on that note I have to bring up a bit about your social media because you do talk about things um publicly about you know the the battery industry because you are passionate about it and you are putting out information to help encourage the Next Generation to understand that this is a career there are opportunities here like I said in the intro you’ve got a YouTube channel that is across the nerse so please go check it out if you’re listening or watching this um but you’re also on a couple other apps as well so I think it’s really important what you’re doing is putting out that information that knowledge that maybe isn’t publicly available in some work guards you know to help that next Generation understand what is available out there exactly I mean when I filmed my first YouTube video it was in 2019 when I was working as a senior scientist developing lithium ion battery technology it

was on my lunch break and I was just like kind of trying out my camera equipment because I actually wanted to film a series on how to navigate harassment but I was like you know what let me just film a couple couple videos talking about some things I know about like electrochemical anded spectroscopy and maybe this will help one person it’s been four years five years almost and that video that I filmed on my lunch break has over 50,000 views I get messages weekly from people saying how much it helped them in overcoming the initial barriers to learn about this technique and just that video itself has gotten me into conversations that otherwise I wouldn’t have been in rooms I wouldn’t have been in and it’s established essentially a big foundation of my personal brand that I’ve then been able to navigate my own career find different opportunities so what I found that it helped a lot of people but also it really helped me too and putting my knowledge out there because then people know what I have to give and I love sharing my knowledge I love interacting with people and

you know the more that we talk and exchange ideas the more that we imagine how the future can be the faster we can really accelerate this Innovation towards a sustainable energy future so I think everyone should have a YouTube channel and put out content and share their knowledge and share their ideas in a way that is comfortable for them well you’re you’re pretty much um selling everyone on recycled media because that is a little bit of our slogan like we absolutely think that you know that from an SEO standpoint YouTube is owned by Google it’s why we put all of our podcast on YouTube it helps with the algorithm it helps people get their their brands out there it helps from just a an ability to get your name out there and you do a fair bit of traveling and speaking and I suspect that some of those engagements probably come from these leads that are coming in from you putting out the fact that you are a knowledgeable expert in your field by putting out these videos absolutely and if for people who maybe are seeking some bit of knowledge that I don’t

know at least I can be that person who they reach out to and I go oh you know I’m not the expert in this but you should talk to so and so so you then become this kind of Hub of you know people can come to you you’re a resource and that helps too it’s it’s pretty incredible whenever um I see some of your your videos that pop up and you know you’re you’re showcasing that you’re uh speaking at a conference and it’s like the before or it’s the after at the you know at the conference and it’s kind of a cool behind the scenes a little bit more real life um because a lot of times on social media we see like the perfect you know um you know speaker photo or that moment and you put a little bit more of like that reality behind it and I hope that you’ve had some experience where it’s encouraged others to also have those speaking opportunities as well well or encourage them to take that opportunity just because you know it shows them that you can get up there and do it or attend

that conference that it’s not as intimidating as maybe what they might think it would be yeah I’m all about accessibility and so I’m so glad that you noticed that about how I have my content is like I’m a person like I’m just a person who’s really passionate and interested in a topic who likes to talk about it and meet other people who like to talk about it and I think through doing it that way too a lot of students engage with me so I don’t just do talks for professionals like um for IP professionals on battery IP or on uh you know battery sustainability I just gave a lecture at an at a university in India actually and not just like for students for professionals but also for I did a a talk recently at an undergraduate physics student conference and this was a talk I’ve always wanted to give to undergraduate physics Majors who are women because it’s what I wish I had heard at that age at that level of my education and my career and I got up on that stage I wore a dress which a lot of them were

like Blown Away the fact that I just wore a dress and was like in my feminine empowered self um but then talking so openly about my career path not just in how I’ve gotten to where I am from a technical stand point but also in navigating know sexism biases harassment throughout my career just very openly like hey this is a professional skill that we all need to learn to just do our job in this industry unfortunately um but it was so well-received even though I wasn’t necessarily leaning into the technical topic it was more focused on you know how to thrive in your career and in your education so I love speaking like you said I love speaking on like so many different topics uh and in front of so many different audiences and that’s always a fun challenge for me is how can I take these complex topics and these complex Concepts between society and engineering and batteries and everything and then tune it towards that audience so that they get the most out of it they get what they want out of it that’s a really intuitive way to think about

it it’s something that I’ve struggled with throughout my career I I feel like without knowing the exact stats uh about your particular field that we’re probably in a very parallel um working environment in the manufacturing world just in general women make up about 30% I don’t know the exact stat um particularly like in the steel world or the recycled materials world but you get the point like it’s been you know from a um minority standpoint women are you know not the majority in my industry and so for a lot of times you know I wear the pants suit right like or I wear jeans it never probably would have dawned on me to wear the dress on stage right like I struggled with that femininity and I love the fact that you went up there and you’re like no this is me I can rock a dress on stage be professional know my expertise put it out there and showcase to the next you know generation that you can do this like this is an acceptable thing you don’t have to conform gen Z is all about what they add into the environment not

fitting in and I think that is a really incredible thing that you’re you’re showcasing to them I think that’s the biggest mistake people make in their careers is they try to fit in and they don’t Embrace who they really are and what their interests are because the challenges in metals the challenges in batteries there’s so many any of them and they require these different skill sets and perspectives you know sustainability isn’t for the 1% it’s for the 99% and so you have to design these industries and these structures and how we do things for the 99% and that requires diversity uh and so it’s it’s interesting to hear you say too that you struggle with wearing the dress on stage and while it’s you know it brings out my most confident self in a lot of ways and so that’s why I dress to to feel my most confident whatever that may be for the day could be dress it could be pants but it’s that bringing your authentic self into these conversations into these rooms and realizing that people may disagree with you they may not like you but they’re not for you

then like go somewhere else find the people who are and that’s why like I’m so excited I found you yes likewise it’s been really wonderful having you as somebody that again has been kind of like in a parall career track where we’ve been able to you know kind of talk offline or you know in the DMS as um the youths say I feel so weird saying that um and for those who may not know um you and I live up the street from each other I’ll call it up the street is um we both live um on on the west coast and so we’ve actually been able to meet in person which is which has been incredible we went from online to inperson and and um it’s it’s just kind of show goes to show that if you don’t put yourself out there if you don’t showcase you know what you bring to the table you’re never going to know what could have been out there right like if you hadn’t put any of your your knowledge or expertise out there I never would have found you out there and been able to see

what you were going through and been able to to know that like oh there’s somebody else out there that’s gone through things that I’ve had to deal with with and what did she do that I can learn from or appreciate because now I’m thinking I’m going to a conference next month I got a great dress that you know I might wear on stage um you know I I’m giving a couple talks next month I might be wearing that next month do it you won’t regret it I don’t think I don’t think I will like I I’m I’m all for it because there’s a women recycling event why not why can’t I wear it exactly and it’s just so interesting how I think a lot of people shy away from putting themselves out there they’re worried about trolls they’re worried about people like who will think they look dumb or like an idiot or something like but it’s I’ve gotten only Mo mostly positive responses from putting myself out there and yeah you get some negative stuff every now and then but in the grand scheme of things it has connected me quicker with kind

of what’s meant for me or the opportunities that resonate the most with with me and it it was my best career choice ever to start a YouTube channel and and I’m sure you feel kind of the same in that you just you find your tribe you find your customers whoever it may be depending on how you’re targeting your message and when it comes to our globally interconnected world I think it’s very important for us to think about how we are connected globally and tap into those global networks for learning like I really appreciate the example of local uh government in the the concept of sister cities of how Mayors from different cities will work together to Foster diplomacy across borders and this isn’t at the federal level this is at the local level and I feel like in a way if we think of our companies or the corporations we work for like our our local comp or countries or States you know those are the bodies we exist in but we as individuals can cross borders connect with people who are different than us in different parts of the world and create Magic

like create Innovation and that’s the world we live in now and I think it’s taken some of my like bursting past my limiting beliefs to realize that that’s like a net benefit to the world to engage with people in that way rather than thinking more narrowly about who’s in my close vicinity that I can work with well it’s about that diversification of thought of kind kind of expanding outside of your bubble of like finding that next thought of okay what’s going to challenge me what’s going to you know kind of push outside of what I’ve you know thought of before and maybe that comes up with a new idea or maybe it’s a value ad that we hadn’t thought of before yeah and it just the kind of parallel I see in our Industries is with battery recycling and how there’s so much these battery recycling companies can learn from this current model of the scrap industry and how to you know bring in the batteries to recycle and and navigate those build those Supply chains and all of that you know there’s so many Lessons Learned across industries that can accelerate that’s development

yes and we still have to get you to one of the um country’s largest metal recycling facilities down um in Long Beach soon um because it’s a pretty impressive facility they do a really great job down there um so those that are in the metal recycling world you probably know who I’m talking about and would probably agree with me on that front um before we end um I just want to ask you if there’s anything else that you would want to share about you know the battery space if there’s anything about getting involved getting into it or what you’re thinking about where it’s headed in the future yeah I’ll start with where it’s headed and finished with a resource that I have to share so where it’s headed a lot of people ask you know are we going to stick with lithium ion batteries because they’re sometimes comprised of materials that are toxic or they’re mind in regions where there’s a human violation of Human Rights right so the good news is that there’s a variety of different materials we can use in batteries my trusty periodic table of elements right here so we

have a limited amount of elements right but we have quite a few to pick from and and work with and those are in development and there are alternative chemistries to ones that are more damaging to Human Health in the environment and that’s why the focus is Shifting right now from like nickel-based cathodes you may hear to uh lithium iron phosphate based cathodes and also sodium iion batteries are another emerging technology that we’re seeing more and more nowadays they won’t fully displace lithium ion batteries in the short term but they are another alternative to lithium ion batteries which it’s always good to diversify the material so that you’re not over consuming certain ones and also so speaking of Trends too uh Sal a lot of talk on solid state batteries and these sometimes use similar materials as lithium ion batteries but the real Advantage is to use that lithium metal foil there’s a lot of challenges with manufacturing of that lithium metal foil so from a Metals perspective that’s a key challenge in that side of the industry for Batteries that’s upcoming um but just for a resource if you want to learn more

about batteries about battery manufacturer Ing and get linked to different resources I created a guide called battery industry onboarding which is basically like an onboarding process into the battery industry it’s a weekly email to you with jam-packed with resources that I’ve saved so they’re all accessible and would love to have you join and sign up and receive those things to accelerate your learning about batteries well that’s a really great segue so for those people that are interested in getting in contact with you what is the best way to find you is it LinkedIn is it YouTube what’s the best method to to get a hold of you I think the best way these days is to use my website I have a contact form in there so Jill pasta.com is my website but also feel free to send me a DM on LinkedIn always happy to get those wonderful and if you’re listening this online um uh you will see that in the Bio Section on here so Jill I just want to say thank you so much for coming on here uh it’s it’s been a pleasure and you know it

as always I learned a few things expanded my knowledge based on batteries and I I really appreciated your time yeah thank you so much for hosting these conversations it’s such an honor to be on here thank you