welcome to bets on the future where we highlight the various career paths and the electrifying Metals World from the vehicle you ride in to the bridge holding it up metals are everywhere why not in your career too I’m Jennifer Betts a Metals industry veteran with almost 20 years experience here to highlight these incredible career paths As Told by the women who are living them this week we will be joined by the incredibly talented Amy Hinton the North American Scrap editor for fast markets Amy brings a wealth of knowledge of metal recycling specifically in the ferris I.E Steel World currently she manages a team of six reporters and is responsible for the pricing and coverage of Ferris non-ferrous and stainless scrap metal as well as alternative irons including pig iron she has achieved remarkable success within the price reporting industry and I cannot wait to share this conversation of finding the metals industry with Amy so thank you for joining us no thanks for having me I’m happy to be here me and my headset are happy to be here so we had a lot less to speak to you likewise I want

to know a little bit more about you because I’ve known about you in the industry for a while but we’ve never actually gotten the chance to talk this is our first time actually speaking together so I want to know how did you even get into this um it’s always interesting to me to see how people find the metals industry yeah I think it’s a very anyone that knows me and I think I’ve touched on this briefly before it was a very round the houses way of getting into things which is but you know it’s very on brand for me um but I was I trained as a linguist initially so that was my big thing when I was in university ended up leaving University doing a string of banking roles in my 20s and then just remember thinking goodness me I don’t think I could you know it’s kind of it all sounds very glamorous but it’s very data driven and as much as I love all that there wasn’t much respite and you know having a background in languages I really do enjoy communicating um so I got to the ripe old age

of 29 and I think I was looking for something different and and a recruiter actually found me I was like oh have you considered maybe combining a few sort of you know your your numerical background um with something you know a little bit more you know obviously there’s a journalistic element to it there’s a communicative element to it so I knew absolutely nothing about Metals other than a very brief dalliance with sort of a trade finance department of a Japanese bank so I knew enough about Commodities that I wasn’t you know a complete novice but um and I just decided to go for it so thought you know nothing ventured nothing gained so very fortunately for me as I’m sort of continuing to carve out a niche in the scrap Market my calling kind of dropped into my inbox as it were and now I’m very happy to be sort of in that market which people people find it so bizarre I mean my parents don’t fully understand what I do even to this day and I’m sure there are lots of people in the ferris Market that wish that I wasn’t here but

sadly for them I am um yeah so it was just a very kind of roundabout way but I’m happy to be sort of carving a niche in an industry I never thought I would end up in and didn’t know anything about but turns out that I actually really love it it’s a really interesting section of the metals industry um for folks that are unfamiliar with uh some of the terms that you threw out there Ferris Effie that stands for iron Ferris is essentially the adjective for uh iron things that stick to metal and yes I’m skipping over pure nickel sticks to metal but generally speaking things that stick to metal are Ferris material and so that’s a really large part of the sustainability movement as well specifically in the United States the fair scrap market for instance is huge and 70 of the steel mills in the United States use recycled materials like the ferrous scrap so your in a rather large Market um and it’s Global as well uh and I’m sure you come across some really interesting characters um and individuals in this industry very much so and I think it’s it’s

really it’s an it’s such a paradox because I had no like I of I live in Pittsburgh now obviously I’m not from the states I I was really excited and it was a new opportunity when the role came up to transition interestingly as you mentioned nickel that was something I used to cover um I was in the primary measures Market I landed in the US and I had no idea of the scale of what I was undertaking um you know call it Brave call it stupid probably six of one and half a dozen of the other and I just remember being because it sounds very you know we’re we’re pushing sustainability recycling is going to be a huge part of the future of infrastructure infrastructure and it already is but you have the Paradox that it’s quite an archaic market and I say that in the nicest possible way it’s sort of very traditional so I feel it’s actually quite an exciting time to be in the business because you’ve got this kind of wild west type where we’re really dealing with a very opaque Market that’s actually going to be driving the Futures

I think we’re actually at a kind of a Tipping Point now in terms of the impact that the industry that we’re in will have on um on all of our Lives moving forward and I think you can’t really overstate the the importance of that so it’s really exciting and I had no idea the gravity I definitely bit off more than I could probably chew and I think there’d be more than you know enough people that I’ve come across that would tell you that that’s definitely the truth but you know I’m excited to keep forging and pushing forward um in that regard definitely it’s something that most folks are completely unaware of um and they’re also if they do know about the recycled materials Market Fair scrap Market the non-ferrous Market things that essentially provide the raw materials for the manufacturing in our United States how would you describe what you do in terms of connecting it with those markets so our essential so we are I mean I in terms of what fast Market’s mission is it’s to bring transparency to the commodity markets and we’re across commodity price reporting agency so we

are active in the metals and Mining space the scrap and secondary primary Metals forestry Products you know we do we really do um a bit of everything but our main mission is to accurately report on markets and bring transparency to trading and give that insight to our end users that they perhaps wouldn’t otherwise have now obviously I’ll caveat that by saying there are plenty of people that would you know give us varying marks out of 10 for accuracy um which we’ll probably touch on later but that’s that’s very much to provide sort of we sit alongside the market and try and provide transparency where it you know where we can um and I I flatter us that we’ve done a fairly good job um in that regard um which is particularly applicable for scrap and secondary markets because you know they’re not exchange traded like other metals I came from a background covering um you know primary and secondary aluminum nickel um and you know covering the lme Futures Market um the uptake I Now cover this the CME busheling Market something I’m in tune with on a daily basis and the uptake for

futures um and exchange trading for Ferris has been almost negligible like in comparison to other Commodities so there’s a real there’s a real place for us there because where you know where else are you going to the you know the people that are in this market you know if they ask you for information on something typically they wanted it yesterday like there’s no time to waste um so you know where we try and offer um some transparency where there’s a lot of opacity and where there’s kind of a much more sort of secretive bent to the way that people are doing their business which is you know I totally respect that it’s you know it’s business it’s all forms part of competition um but you know there’s a there’s a bigger picture here when you know we’re looking at the entire supply chain um all the way down to the um original equipment manufacturers so some huge players who sort of would rely on that transparency as much as people that are competing at a dealer or a seller level it’s something the everyday person is not aware of when people go to their

grocery store there’s prices it’s already priced up right somebody has decided that price they’ve put it out there it’s it’s there in the commodity world you do have those exchanges where it’s publicly available information on those but that’s for essentially the the pure metals and we are adding scrap contracts to those exchanges but generally speaking it’s been like you said a little bit archaic in terms of it’s a phone call it’s a text message it’s an email it’s essentially Word of Mouth in the ferris scrap Market in the United States it trades generally speaking once a month so for three days I suspect your life is extremely busy trying to track down all the individuals and the telephone calls that are happening um at the beginning of the month to basically essentially set the market for that month people have one or two days really does to make their contracts for the month I would love it if it was only three days it’s as as time as time goes by um that period becomes more and more protracted I mean we would probably we’re the market never specifically closes but I would say

the first 10 days of the month are really where we’re on high alert um the reason being that um you know that we have Midwest indices um that that need to be settled so that exchanges can wrap up their you know the given front month contract so we’re really under the cost for 10 days of the month um and sometimes thereafter you know it’s a it’s a um yeah it’s an interesting timeline and I would say that that’s something that’s becoming you know harder and harder to achieve um with all of the wonderfully exciting things that have been happening in the in the ferris markets there’s a so like swathes of consolidation across the country which is really driving um you know driving the way that business is done and um you know it I would say that with the added so no I wouldn’t say it’s definitely a positive thing in terms of the way that sustainability and the market is moving and evolving but it can make it a more of a difficult job when you have a really rapidly evolving landscape so the status quo when I started in this particular

Market two and a half years ago is very different to what it is now um and it is a very traditional a traditional way of doing business you know we’re we are pounding the telephones we’re trying to speak to as many people as possible because that’s really the long and short of it like it’s you know it’s the best way to get the job done and it does you know it does take some time and and dedication um I suppose it is what it is I’d be interested to see actually how consolidation continues to affect the way that these markets are priced because you’ve definitely seen that you know think things are changing particularly in the in terms of who you know the the major players the way that they’re doing business the way they’re buying their scrap how they’re interacting with the market um you know don’t want to say too much and ruffle too many feathers but it’s definitely one thing to keep an eye on particularly for in terms of our team and you know just personally things that we’re noticing on on that note from what you’ve seen happen over

the past you know several years where do you see that market going do you see additional consolidation and is it going to be more consolidation on the supply side on essentially the the manufacturer side what do you see coming down the pipeline I think we’re gonna see I mean we’ve already seen a lot of supply side consolidation I mean it’s really the the name of the game now that Mills have you know have really ensured that they’re ahead of the raw materials curve um in terms of ensuring that they’ve got captive tonnages um we’ve seen that with you know I don’t again not naming any names probably don’t need to for anyone that’s listening to this um but I think we’re probably I think the we’ve seen a large bulk of that happening I can’t see that um supply side consolidation stopping anytime soon I think that really is the theme du jour so I think that’s very obvious and nothing that really needs to be stated I think that’s going to carry on what I would be interested to see is how that is going to play out in terms of the way

that the markets individual Regional markets because the US market is very Regional um we’ve seen that really there’s been a sort of a north-south divide that’s becoming more apparent particularly in terms of the way that the the prices pan out um at any at any given month I’ll be interested to see if that’s really going to dry up the traditional way that the markets operate we’ve seen in certain smaller markets certain Commodities are becoming you know markets for for sort of less desirable raw materials of all but drying up it’s having a a detrimental impact on smaller um dealers and suppliers um which I think is a real shame because one of the things that really attracts me to this Market is the kind of the fact that it’s a very sort of it’s sort of very traditional family oriented and I would really hate to see us get to the point where we’re consolidated and there’s not space I I would like to see continued Reliance on smaller yards um people that have got you know have had skin in the game for you know centuries in some cases you know we’ll

speak to people that have had a yard in their family for over 100 years like I’d hate to see that kind of thing phased out I had this conversation the other day because I have similar concerns I’ve I’ve worked for some of those uh large conglomerates uh in in my day and they will be continuing to purchase more of those companies and so I have the same concerns because it’s been wonderful to to have these interactions with these family-owned businesses over over the years and when I was talking to somebody about this they brought up a couple really great examples uh and I won’t name any names but um people will be able to figure out if they’re in the scrap world who I’m talking about here but essentially there have been situations where family-owned businesses sold to the major conglomerates right and then after a couple years after their non-competes or whatever their legal contracts are you know what they did they’re not on an island they’re not you know traveling around the world you know what they decided to do after their hundreds of millions of dollars payout they

open up another scrap yard and they do it again because that’s that’s what they love that’s what they want to do and so it does give me hope that if there are going to be additional Acquisitions I mean there will be right people are not going to just go off to an island the folks that I’m sure you’ve met in this industry some yes there might be a few that yeah they’re gonna go get their Richard Branson private island in the Bahamas or wherever but there’s going to be a lot of people I would say the majority of the folks that if they do sell their family business they’re gonna go and start another one they’re they’re not gonna the entrepreneurs that are out there are not going to stop being entrepreneurs and you know more power to them I think that’s incredibly smart than if I are in that position that’s what I would do you know nothing says let’s have another crack at the whip like a huge injection of liquid Capital like I think it’s a fantastic idea and with all of that expertise I mean people are fortunate that they’re

you know people that are fortunate enough to be born into a family business a generational business you know grow up around it I don’t think I think it would be very hard to sort of turn off the switch so no I I I hope that um that we continue to sort of see new and exciting things because the landscape is evolving demand is accelerating so rapidly so there’s definitely a market for these things and there’s you know there’s nothing to say that people couldn’t or shouldn’t re-enter you know at a different point though I think um I’m all for it personally I think it’s a good thing for the folks that are listening that are not familiar with the fair scrap Market it is something uh that’s a little bit of a unique spot in the United States um and we’ll go around the the world to put it a little bit in perspective but it’s a really great business opportunity for individuals that want to start a scrap yard right it’s because there is a sustainability push there is a drive in the United States and around the world minus a handful

of some countries but generally speaking they’re switching from the integrated methods um and switching over to Electric Arc furnaces in the way that we produce steel so essentially in layman’s turns producing steel from ore from the ground up scratch if you will or essentially melting down existing steel that’s out there in a more sustainable fashion and yes I am glossing over that the integrated methods are coming up with some more sustainable practices in there but that being said 70 and it’s growing of the steel Mark in the United States is electric Arc furnaces and it’s growing and there’s going to be a continued demand for it so the raw materials the ferrous scrap that’s in the United States is only going to be in higher demand in the upcoming years so even if there is consolidation from these major steel mills that are trying to secure their raw materials it doesn’t mean that there isn’t a business opportunity for additional scrap yards to pop up there absolutely is going to be more of a need for that service for manufacturers that are producing the scrap for the municipalities that maybe don’t have the best

recycling program in place there’s going to be an economical opportunity for businesses in the United States to partake in this industry no absolutely and I think the very interesting you know the the drive towards it is huge and all the numbers are supportive of this fact if you take the I mean I’ve written about this until I’m basically blue in the face but if you take this very much lauded infrastructural bill that the current Administration is really pushing like it’s a trillion dollar initiative that’s gonna it’s really gonna you know Drive let’s take rebar as our example if you look at the the the share volume of rebar that would be required to to build all of these wonderful new houses Bridges and tunnels and other such things that are on the horizon it’s going to take broadly a 98.5 scrap input so if you take the your rebar number and then look at how much scrap you’re going to need it’s an almost uh it’s give or take a a few percent it’s an almost direct conversion to the amount of material that’s going to be needed your your heavy amount your

pns your um your shred and other such things that would typically go into that melt like it’s an almost one for one ratio so there’s don’t you can’t really overstate the and from conversations that we had um our um first post-covered scrap conference in person conference back in January and we were talking some talking to some Executives there and they really think that the green shoots are going to start to come through in the latter half of this year and they’re beyond so this is the really you know it’s an exciting time and a good time to to jump in I would say um absolutely for for those that are looking to get into the minerals industry particularly on the fair scrap side of things or just really in the scrap world at all do you have any recommendations or suggestions on how they can get into it um get yourself down to Israel so Institute of scrap recycling Industries I’m a I really I’m a huge fan of the work they do I attend um as many of their chapter meetings and conventions as I can and I think you know I

think the don’t quote me on this but the the membership fee you know pays itself a million times over in networking opportunity I I mean I’m someone that likes to throw myself in and you know try and meet as many people as possible and you’ve really got a captive audience I think the work they do is fantastic and you won’t find a better way if you’re willing to throw your hat in the ring um to communicate with industry professionals from across the supply chain um than you will at an Israel event so I would say you know that would if I were trying to you know if I were trying to really get into the business and break ground that is that is what I would do that would be my first um Port of Call and then after there the onus is on you to do your research and have the conversations with the right people and I generally I mean they’re very aside of the fact that they’re fantastic opportunities for business networking they’re also very enjoyable and you’ll meet people that you know I I speak to people now that you

you know I never limit yourself you you’re covering Ferris one day but you never know you might be doing feral allies you might be doing titanium 10 years from now you just don’t know and I’ve met people that I speak to in markets that have no direct correlation to the things that I’m working on now but you don’t know where you’re going to end up and I think that the the relationship between all of these things is um you know that it can be useful to learn as much about other markets um as it is to cover your own so that you have to answer your question I’d say get yourself down to Israeli say I’ll send them my uh my invoice for commission later on I was just about to say uh insert the uh the ad for isary at this point in the I don’t I can’t believe I should have asked them to you know that was completely off the cuff but I should have thought to give them a phone call and said you know are you interested in sponsoring this episode but it’s topical as well because you know

Nationals are next month in Nashville so you know everyone’s kind of gearing up to head there in a month’s time or so so yeah that’s what that’s what I would do yes that’s that’s a fantastic answer if you are unable to go to isri in person but you have access to a computer check out their LinkedIn page go to their website um see their their post on social media I believe they’re on Twitter and possibly Instagram as well and start seeing who’s commenting on their posts that’s also another really great networking angle because if you’re trying to get into the industry you can start to see who the players are what they’re doing is recovers a wide variety of um businesses from the recycled materials World it can be battles it can be paper plastic it’s it’s a really great organization um to to be a part of to network through and uh it 10 out of 10 I I 100 agree with you I’m very much looking forward to Nashville it’s a funny story actually I actually I because we’ve never this is the first time we’ve spoken face race but I did

see you in St Louis for Consumer night um and I was going to I was waiting for coffee in the Starbucks at the the Union Station Hotel I was going to come and introduce myself because I recognized you um and we obviously have mutual contacts and friends and then someone accosted me to talk about one of the markets and I didn’t I never got the offer so I ended up talking about machine shop turnings with with somebody um instead of getting to introduce myself so you point being you never know who you’re going to meet or who you’re going to spot there so definitely a good one oh absolutely and and St Louis is a fantastic one it’s 1500 2 000 of your closest friend friends in the in the scrap Market all in one room and yes it’s very challenging to meet all the people that you need to in those situations because there are so many people that you can that you can have wonderful conversations with during that time yeah no very much so I do um and they’re they’re enjoyable too like I feel like obviously we all know that

we’re very professional and committed to to what we’re doing but you know we’re human at the end of the day and I think it’s a it’s as important to go there and maintain relationships and you know particularly in the this day and age postcovid where things are increasing increasingly moving online people are people are working remotely you can’t really put you can’t overstate the importance of being able to see people face to face because I do think that makes a um the world of difference and that that’s one of the things I do think is particularly good about the ferris scrap Market which may get a bit of stick for you know maybe not being as slick or forward-facing as you know you know nickel let’s say with the the bubble and things like that but the best thing about it is that kind of human sort of more traditional way of doing business on that note I will ask you uh if somebody does want to get a hold of you though what’s the best way to find you are you on LinkedIn are you on Twitter I know Twitter is a

really big one for for journalists um so I’m everywhere I try to be here for her anyway I’m on link I’m on LinkedIn um I am on Twitter I must admit I’ve been a little bit remiss with the Twitter um but I am I sort of I sort of actively canvassed the space um and haven’t posted anything there for a while so Twitter LinkedIn definitely um and then you know if anyone uses fast Market servers like we’re we’re fairly free and easy with attaching our emails to anything that we write so you know if anyone takes real exception they can uh they can get hold of me but I would say if anyone wants to get in touch with me on the strength of this just drop me a direct message on LinkedIn um I’m fairly responsive in fact I’m very responsive that’s another you know good way to you know keep an eye out for what’s going on really the importance of of LinkedIn and obviously some gems you can find that you know if you connect with the right people so yeah if anyone needs me send me a DM on LinkedIn

well that’s more or less how we ended up talking um is from LinkedIn connections is from Mutual connections that more or less said you two need to talk to each other uh and and get together and so uh unfortunately we we weren’t able to get the copy machine shop earnings I understand they’re very important you can hold them personally I hold them personally responsible that’s a another story for another another time maybe yes maybe not when the microphones are around um at this point but we we are going to meet up in in Nashville so I’m really looking forward to that to actually meeting you in person um I want to say thank you so much for for coming on here discussing your your background your experience the metals industry particularly the U.S Fair scrap market for anyone that’s interested in getting a hold of Amy by all means find her on LinkedIn Twitter uh she’s a fantastic uh expert in our in our industry and so she she’s a wonderful connection to to have so thank you so much Amy for for being on here I really appreciate it my pleasure and

I will put your commission check in the post thank you very much for that uh glowing review I appreciate it no thank you it’s been really enjoyable I’m always happy to to talk because anyone who knows me well will tell you and yeah I’m always available so I’d say people don’t be afraid to reach out if there’s you know anything at all industry related or otherwise you know we’re all um you know I I do think that it’s a really the more the merrier always happy to offer some advice if there’s anything that people think that they you know they might glean from talking to me I’d urge them to wonderful I really appreciate it and again this is Amy Hinton she is the senior pricing reporter for the US Fair scrap market for fast markets formally amm thank you thank you