# Talking Tires Podcast

## Introduction

**Craig Hunter:** Welcome to Talking Tires, the podcast that delves deep into the world of tires. Join us as we explore everything from the science behind tire manufacturing to the latest innovations in tire recycling. Our aim is to provide you with a comprehensive understanding of tires, including how they work, how to maintain them, and how to dispose of them responsibly. Whether you’re a seasoned mechanic, curious car enthusiast, or an avid recycler, Talking Tires is the perfect podcast for anyone who wants to learn about this essential component of modern vehicles and heavy equipment. So, buckle up and join us for an informative and engaging journey into the world of tires.

## Discussion with Red Clark

**Craig Hunter:** All right, welcome to another episode of Talking Tires. I’m your host, Craig Hunter, president of Tire Reclaim, and I’m here with Red Clark of Asphalt Plus. There’s a real buzz around the show today about RMA, rubber-modified asphalt, and other asphalt processes that involve crumb rubber. We wanted to chat with Red a little bit about what he’s got going on, what’s coming in the future, but more importantly, about the man. Red, welcome.

**Red Clark:** Thank you. I’m glad to be here.

**Craig Hunter:** How long have you been in the RMA and tire recycling world?

**Red Clark:** I’ve been in the tire recycling world for about 20 years. I’ve been in the larger recycling world for about 45 years.

**Craig Hunter:** Tell me a little bit about that. How did you get your start in recycling?

**Red Clark:** Well, I made a wrong turn somewhere. That’s all I can tell you. (laughs)

**Craig Hunter:** I hear that a lot.

**Red Clark:** Yeah, I started out as a university professor teaching in environmental science and engineering areas. I left early in that career to go into the private sector just because it’s tough to feed your family on what they pay teachers. So, I transferred over into consulting engineering, then into a fairly senior state environmental management position, and subsequently into the private sector. My first company was a recycling company. I grew that into a substantial national firm, sold it to Waste Management, then took over another struggling company trying to get rubber into asphalt, and we’ve grown that to operate internationally in Asia, Europe, Central America, and North America.

**Craig Hunter:** When we first met, I reached out to you because of Idaho’s growing need for tire outlets. We at Tire Reclaim, we’ve set up there. It’s our niche, focusing on Idaho and what to do with Idaho tires. So, I started looking into asphalt and different solutions, and we didn’t have anything on the ground. So, I reached out to you. We had a great call with our diversion specialist, Tara, myself, and you. The amount of information you had was really earth-shaking for me with the miles you’ve already got under your belt. And we’re talking tens of thousands of miles, which produces data, right?

**Red Clark:** Yes, success is 10% invention and 90% perspiration, and that’s the case here. The only way you’re going to get rubber products into asphalt pavements is through an enormous amount of effort, investment, and time to demonstrate that it can be done, that the quality can be controlled, and to show them the economic benefits are worth it. People have been trying to get rubber into asphalt as a commercial reality for over 50 years and it had been consistently met with failure because industry rules and economic compliance were not fully understood. However, results-driven endeavors have shown the market the benefits, and learning to configure rubber to meet industry needs has been key.

**Craig Hunter:** What was the process like from the initial paving trials to gaining broader adoption?

**Red Clark:** It was a long and difficult journey. We put our first pavement on the ground using dry process rubberized asphalt around 2002. It has taken 22 years or so for the industry to really embrace the technology. Once accepted, we started seeing hockey stick-like growth and more regulatory agencies acknowledging its efficacy. Our success stemmed from a great amount of effort and numerous contributors, adapting and learning continually from the challenges faced.

**Craig Hunter:** What’s been some of the pushback?

**Red Clark:** The pushback comes from everyone involved, like the road owners, mix plant operators, and contractors who can all say no. They each need convincing, and only experience, time, and data can achieve that. Starting with smaller trials, we’ve moved on to larger projects, utilizing half a tire per ton of mix, significantly impacting scrap tire usage.

**Craig Hunter:** Could you explain more about the differences between wet and dry processes?

**Red Clark:** Absolutely. The wet process involves adding rubber to a heated liquid binder and is notoriously sticky and smoky, whereas the dry process involves chemically re-engineering fine crumb rubber and introducing it into the mixing process at high temperatures, making the pavement more resistant to cracking and deformation with cost benefits that favor dry process over wet or polymer modifications.

**Craig Hunter:** What are some key benefits you’ve seen with the dry process?

**Red Clark:** The dry process is less expensive, lasts longer, offers better stopping power in wet conditions, provides a quieter ride, and has a smaller environmental footprint. It fulfills market needs, proving to be a reliable solution valued by decision-makers frustrated with risky changes.

**Craig Hunter:** Thanks for explaining all of this. If anyone wants to reach out or learn more about your work, how can they contact Asphalt Plus?

**Red Clark:** They can visit our website at www.asphaltplus.com for more information. We’re worldwide, bringing this technology to the marketplace, steadily increasing productive uses for scrap tires.

**Craig Hunter:** Thanks for coming on, Red. This is exactly the kind of conversation we want to facilitate here on Talking Tires.

**Red Clark:** Pleasure. Good to talk to you.