**Brett:** Welcome to A Scrap Life, a podcast solely focused on the hustlers, grinders, operators, and business owners who live and breathe the scrap metal industry every day. Here is your host, Brett Eart.

**Brett:** All right, we’re back. May 2026. It’s already here. Just passed the May the 4th for all you Star Wars fans out there. Whatever. Cinco de Mayo was yesterday. I saw the best quote. It’s the best picture. I posted it was, “Cinco de Mayo was on Taco Tuesday and we’ve been training for this for years.” So, I even had my wife made us some tacos last night for dinner. It was awesome. And uh man, it’s May already, Chad. What What’s the these crazy scrap markets like on the non-ferris side? The Ferris has been kind of like, you know, kind of hanging out on the lake. Not a lot, not a lot of waves as of late. But what’s going on, man? How we doing today?

**Chad:** Post uh Cinco de Taco, right?

**Brett:** Yes. Yes. we’ve been training for this. We get this only opportunity once every seven years, you know.

**Chad:** Well, well, I think, you know, I’m I’m excited to get a chance to talk to you about these charts today because, man, there’s a there’s a lot going on here. I got I got all kinds of data points, but hopefully we—

**Brett:** Bet you do. And they’re all positive. So, for all you bears out there, don’t don’t get your hopes up because, you know, mill utilization is up. um all the things. So, we’ll see. We’ll see what happened. No, I think that’s was something I did read about the other day. They felt like the mill utilization was up, but I’m sure then I but then I hear people there’s mill outages and whatnot. I’m sure you’re going to go down that path with us today. But for all intents and purposes, are we looking at a good May? We looking at a rough May? We’re looking at a What do you think? Break it down for us, bud.

**Chad:** Well, well, let’s start with Crew production uh rates because you you mentioned that, right? And so I I think to me when I look at this and so the the chart we’re looking at are like the steel output according to the AIS, right? Um was at the beginning of April, we’re at around 79%, we went all the way up to 80% late April and then the last week of April right right back down to 79%.

**Brett:** Mhm. So year to date we’re close to 78% where last year we were only 76%. And so a couple percent doesn’t sound a lot like a lot, but I see an uptrend um in the second quarter on steel production is is pretty not as uncommon, you know, and you can see that in that chart to say yeah,

**Chad:** You know, t typically this is when we go into shutdown season cuz the steel mills typically if they’re going to the highest pricing steels you not always but—

**Brett:** Seasonally in the first quarter they want to make all their money. They’re going to try to widen their margins, do all the things, right? everybody gets lean on inventory. Um, and then we kind of give some of that back the second quarter traditionally. Now we’re seeing kind of just the opposite. So I would I would put that back on you Brett. Tell me about your industrial accounts. How are how is manufacturing doing relative to your to your areas manufacturing?

**Brett:** Manufacturing seems to be doing okay. Like it picked up a little bit of steam, you know, like it said I think in the starting the second quarter. Um, I think first quarter it didn’t I mean it was okay, but I think the second quarter it has picked up, you know, and we didn’t really have like I I’ve said this before, we didn’t have much of a winter this year, which definitely usually helps on the on the manufacturing side. People aren’t just bogged in. Um, so it looks and it feels like um on the manufacturing side that people are more confident or at least they feel like you know they’re they’re willing to put some inventory and and you know make the widget right make you know build the building and you know I think that part of it has definitely felt busier than it did at the very at the beginning of the year and I think your chart I think recognizes that and I think part of that is you know like and I would be curious what your your perspective is but the whole war economy right um when you know when you’re in war cons contemplating it or in some turmoil or potential turmoil I think that you know commodities definitely tend to at least initially see some love right people start you know and and it from that chart that you got on the purchasing manager it feels like maybe there’s some of that in there and how much of that’s AI built out and whatnot. I think maybe you’ll probably answer some of that, but I feel like it’s been, you know, the on the on the commercial side of the business has been decent.

**Chad:** Yeah. And so this we’re looking at the United States purchasing uh managers index, which really like is think about like manufacturing activity, right? And so we’re seeing a spike of a couple percent, which this is a couple percent higher than we’ve seen in in a couple years, right? And so this is to me is exciting from the and we should start seeing this in the industrial account pending the sector right like I think agriculture might be bottoming off the floor sector um construction obviously with data centers you know you see IBM prices are skyhigh obviously that’s a part of this u but but but I also think the automotive sector is not doing it’s just kind of tracking along right it’s not good or bad so to me this is a good sign and why I think steel utilization rates are probably stronger than than seasonality is because people are actually starting to buy. There’s actually starting to be real steel demand out there.

**Brett:** Could you imagine what that would look like if the automotive was strong? I mean, I think when you see $5 gas and if you’re in California, it’s probably $8 gas. Um, depends on the state you’re in. But, you know, when you start seeing $5 gas and that becomes regular, I think it does dampen motivation. Like I think on the automotive side, people are like, “Oh man, gas’s already expensive.” And I’d heard a stat here the other day on a podcast and they’re talking about uh you know on the you know your 1% they don’t really feel high gas prices, right? I mean but your your average you know your your average Joe what is it like it was like 12 or 15% of their income or it’s like something pretty what you’re like oh man is is attributable to gas prices, right? commuting and and energy. I think it it was energy prices, right, in general. So, electricity, fuel, everything. And so, when you start having, you know, pretty what feels like traditionally as of late, high fuel prices, then that takes away the steam out of the automotive. I could see the steel utilization and the purchasing manager index, you know, that pricing that go even higher and hot and hotter if the price of fuel comes down cuz people are going to feel, okay, we’re not in a traditional war economy like on the consumer side. But the government, they are not taking their foot off the gas on the build, right? like you know what Trump just went and asked for a crazy amount in the big beautiful bill to go towards the the military and the military complex. So the the spending there between that and the AI if you had automotive running hot it the the price of steel would be 20% higher I I easily I feel—

**Chad:** Yeah and that’s what’s you know if you talk to like my if I talk to my bank banking um the n analyst type friends, right? They would say, “Hey, steel pricing and crude, you know, oil pricing is tied really close.”

**Brett:** And if you look at this chart, we, you know, we’ve seen oil—

**Chad:** Spike to 116, head back down to, you know, 81 and then come now we’re at like 106, 10, probably 110 this morning, right?

**Brett:** Yeah.

**Chad:** So, it’s been volatile, but the upward trend is pretty clear since since the Iranian conflict, war, what war you want to call it. So,

**Brett:** Epic fury.

**Chad:** Epic fury. So, from an analyst standpoint, I think I think I think there’s a lot of steel buyers, and I read this from a service center that a lot of steel buyers, some contracted tons like they always do every year, but I think there’s a lot of buyers who thought, you know, I’m going to wait till this kind of first quarter kind of fizzles out. As we’re rolling into the second quarter and prices are then like the hot roll curve is only looking stronger for next month, I think it’s catching a lot of steel buyers on their toes of like, oh boy, I’m not worried about I can’t be worried about price. I got to be worried about just getting covered. Well, it seemed like a good idea to just spot by, you know, 30 to 50% of your tons. Now I was like, oh crap, we should have locked that up, right? Or at least a good portion of that. Um, I think that that, you know, it’s the flip side. I think on the scrap side when people like have contracts in place right on the sales side is they like they’re probably wishing they would have you know maybe had depends on what what margins you negotiated say a year ago or six months ago like it was probably that that’s widened out right so if you would have had you know some some tons under contract or some pounds of non-ferris under contract at xyz margin because of the spot sales and because that has widened out. I mean, any of those those those pounds, tons under contract or, you know, people are there’s there’s good there’s good money to be made on that. But if you if you were like, “Hey, I think the pricing is is topped out. I’m going to or whatever. It’s got or it’s got more room.” depends on your thesis. You know, you either left some money on the table like what you’re saying like on the guys that are having to spot buy steel now because they thought the prices would come down and shake out or the people that locked up locked them up, you know, at at XYZ margin, they’re probably feeling pretty good. You know, they probably got some real good margin built in on those tons.

**Brett:** Well, and that’s why I find this this game so interesting. You know, I would have been rather be a seller than a buyer in March. Like to be frank, right? Like I thought March is going to be so I was no different than the steel buyers and a scrap buyer. Like I was thinking like we’re probably get you know these these fairest prices these shred prices are and these cut grade prices like I won’t I’m not going to ask you about your flows. I know they’re good cuz the pricing is great you know for this for this time of year. And so um that’s where I would have thought man just just supply alone. Now, what I don’t, and this is what I think shredders should do versus what is actually going to happen, but I I could see this shred this cut grade shred grade uh the shredded grade market going sideways in the month of May. However, I think shredders should go down 20 and this goes straight down to just to cover their their fuel cost, right?

**Chad:** Yeah.

**Brett:** Because they’re probably paying $10 more a ton on the incoming and they’re probably paying another $10 a ton on outgoing on just in freight fuel. So to me, scale pricing could actually drop 20.

**Brett:** Flows would probably get back into check and margins would just kind of go back to what they were 60 days ago. But is the market going to do that? Probably not. But you know,

**Chad:** No, because you have you have a lot of shredders out there, right? Like you got a lot of guys chasing and even if the flows have been better, you have more capacity to shred, right? So you have like maybe your your flows are better, but it’s still a capacity deal. It’s it’s it’s on the demands like they’re they’re trying to run their you know they’re trying to I probably achieve and this is just pure speculation on my end, but they’re probably trying to achieve some cost efficiencies to counteract the fuel right increase. So okay, we drive our cost per ton down because we have more tons maybe we can balance that higher fuel price out and some probably will and some may not have that success. And I think it it becomes it goes back to being a disciplined buyer right on the scrap on the scrap site. Whether you’re buying for a steel mill like you are or you’re just buying for your your old 700 Sierra shear, you know, like it’s being disciplined and like what your costs are, what it cost you to run it, you know, is it a diesel driven machine? Is it electricity driven? Have your costs gone up, you know, on the front end or the back end? and knowing and and being able to like really put those, you know, put those because those variable costs into the equation and make sure that you’re getting, you know, you’re not leaving it on the table.

**Brett:** Well, and I’m with you and we we’ve been pretty bullish on this podcast so far. So, I got to kind of switch the tune here. And if we look at this inflation data, Brett, I mean, this is we’re at 2 and a half or 2.4. Now we’re at 3.3. This is that all this expensive fuel is going to pay its toll. Like you said, the the little man can’t get ahead.

**Chad:** It’s true. And I and I do feel like that’s going to hurt everybody that’s been kind of counting on like the interest rates coming off, right? I mean, granted, you’re going to get a new Fed chief this month, I believe. Right. Powell’s out and the new guy’s in. and supposedly like he was a guy that you know was going to you know more ride the Trump line of of you know lower interest rates and you know down the road and I do feel like this complicates that story a little bit. Um and you could argue like how is this inflation data fig you know figured and I think that’s a whole another conversation that I’m not ready for. I’m not intelligent enough to even have. But it’s going to complicate things, right? So if if especially in a quote unquote war economy where you know commodities are in kind of a bullish trend where copper is is high, aluminum, it’s it’s all chasing, you know, oil everything is it’s going to be more expensive. I mean fertilizer, right? prices are going to be up, you know, just because of the, you know, the constraints on the the hor on the on the straight the hormuse straight or whatever, however the the proper way to say that. Um, the future US f it’s the future straight of America. I think that’s what I thought. That’s a whole another that’s another conversation. But but I do think like it’s putting a lot of constraints on on commodity pricing, right? like a we need more steel, we need build more weapons, we need more rare earths to counteract, you know, global issues, we need more, you know, like price of oil is getting driven up. So, yeah, I could see inflation, you know, being a a problem that’s going to have to be dealt with somehow some way.

**Brett:** Yeah. And and consumer confidence is down, but but on your note, you know, on that note about commodities getting higher, we’re looking at the pig iron chart now. So pig iron, it went from 490 last month. It’s up to 505. And folks got to remember that’s delivered NOLA. It’s New Orleans, right? Like in what they call dolphins, kind of out in the ocean. So they got to unload that vessel 70,000 60,000 tons onto a barge. Then they got to barge that up to the up to, you know, one of the steel mills. And then they got to unload that. And then they got to truck it all the way up to the steel mill. And so all that cost, let’s just say $45 a ton, right? So you’re you’re really looking at like 550 gross undelivered big p big iron scrap substitutes—

**Chad:** Which when you look at the bushling market today that’s in like the let’s just call it 450 is what I think Argus or AMM published right fast markets published—

**Brett:** you would say and we’re at 80% operating rights like you would say wow these steel mills are sure good at keeping a lid on that market because historically the the pig iron market there usually don’t you won’t see a $100 gap, right? And right now we’re at a $100 gap. And I think—

**Chad:** You could argue there’s usually a $50 to $30 gap, but never 100. And so, and for these mills to be as disciplined as they are and and you know, I would say really doing a great job of of of isolating this market to against crab substitute. I I don’t want to lose sight that these steel mills, you know, um while, you know, they’re not making all the money, they’re they’re margins, Brett. You know, we’re looking at—

**Brett:** They’re not going broke. Like we I we get it, but I and I’m just trying to trying to believe in what you’ve told me over the years of the steel mills are making money, then hopefully we’re making money, you know. But

**Chad:** I I think you’re buying in. I think you’re buying in, aren’t you? I think I mean you just it’s like anything if you say it long enough eventually you brainwash you brainwash people into believing it. Um, and I and I do often wonder and and this was a topic of conversation more like probably a year or two maybe three ago was when your bigger, you know, your steel mills were buying like a lot of your prime producers, right? Like your the companies focused on producing and and processing and making those those those prime tons, bushling tons available to steel mills. They kind of consolidated that up. not all the way, but to a to a certain extent and they’re able to say, “No, we’ll we’ll supply our own and if you want to sell, you know, we we’ll allow you some we’ll give you some there’s some room in here for you, right?” But I mean, the steel mills are, you know, one thing about you got to give it to Trump is he’s going to make the domestic steel economy strong, which as as a scrap processor seller, you have to kind of say, as much as you would like to have some of that margin for yourself, is our country stronger if our domestic steel production is strong? And the answer to that is yes. Like unequivocally in my opinion, yes. Would I love to share in some of that? Like some of that margin? Absolutely. Like I sure would, right? But as a country, are we stronger if our steel pro producers are are strong and are making money? Yes, we are. So, you kind of have to, you know, make, you know, you got to give it to them. I I guess and I maybe I’ve just been beat into submission having these podcasts with you over the years, but it’s it’s it does kind of like it is the chicken and the egg, but they do go together and I and I really believe.

**Brett:** Yeah. And talking about like tariffs and other impacts like um this is the we’re looking at the hot roll indicative curve and you can see May’s at 1080, June’s at 11:30, July is at 11:30. So it’s still going higher is what is my point. And if we go over to Europe, right, they’re at 720, 726. I mean, we’re talking a huge spread, right? The difference between making money in the steel like today, you can’t you can’t convert you can’t buy $500 scrap, convert it, and sell it for 720 and make money. Like there’s just no way, right? And so, on the other hand,

**Chad:** this has got to be like the strongest argument for new steel tariffs. Like I I mean, if you just look at it, right? I mean, look at the difference. It’s not it’s not hard to understand like why tariffs you love them or hate them like depends on what side of the coin you’re on in our situation like tariffs aren’t the aren’t aren’t the worst thing I mean is it going to drive the cost of things up for sure like there is there is that component of it to a certain extent and depends on what it is but if you really are trying to protect an industry and not allow steel dumping and not allow that to hurt your domestic steel production production your that your econ your your economy your domestic steel economy tariffs you can see the value in them you can see the how that is it can be an important piece of the puzzle and I’m not arguing for all tariffs all the time at whatever cost I’m just saying like I’m not super familiar with what Europe’s tariffs are on on Chinese steel or cheap steel coming in but I guarantee they’re not they don’t have as much teeth as ours do, right? Like, and that’s pretty—blatantly obvious.

**Brett:** Yeah. And that’s and so, you know, we’re basically we’re we’re protecting our steel business in this country for national security at the end of the day, right? And and so this has a real impact. And for the scrap guy, I would say right now it’s it’s had a positive impact. So,

**Chad:** Yeah. Are we eating are we eating filet filt, you know, like like the steel mill is? No, we’re eating like a decent cut of p, you know, decent—top sorline. Like we’re eating good like we’re not or maybe we’re getting uh uh like a decent New York, right? Like we’re not eating maybe not even New York. We might just be getting like a—

**Brett:** Demonaco de Monaco, you know. It’s good, but it’s pretty rare, you know.

**Chad:** Yeah, exactly. But but the steel meals, boy, they got the Oscar. They got the crab on top right now. They got the filt with the the side of the tiger shrimp. And so, and I’m glad to see that the the margins when you see steel margins, I’m glad you’re going, “Hey, that’s that’s a good sign. I’m I’m glad to glad you’re on my side on that.”

**Brett:** I am. I I am. I just, you know, I’m always going to be an advocate for the scrap side, right? Like we we But if steel mills are running at an 80 plus percent utilization, that means there’s demand, which is good. you know, the what the market you don’t want to be in is the one where nobody wants to buy your stuff, right? So, like, take that for what that is. So, if you if you’ve got that going for you, that’s good. That’s a good start. Now, you know, if you can build some margin in, then even better. And I think part of that, like we are as as back to your comments on the shredder, like we are our own worst enemy. we, you know, when when it comes to like processing and whatever else, we we will put a shredder right next to a shredder and and compete for the same tons and and then wonder why we can’t make any money cuz, you know, we’re like we got, you know, a bunch of overhead and we’re trying to do the same thing our neighbors doing. But you could see why like, you know, it’s it’s it’s much it’s much more difficult to build a steel mill than it is put a scrapyard in. And even with you put a shredder in, it’s it’s much more difficult to build a steel mill. So there’s got to be some, you know, some discipline on on that side.

**Chad:** Exactly. Exactly. Well, let’s let’s switch gears. Talk about non-ferris. So copper. So we went from 560 all the way up to 5880. U you know, we got as high as what 610 605 somewhere.

**Brett:** 619.

**Chad:** 619 this morning. Changes every day. It was up 20 cents at one point this morning. It’s was it’s literally was it’s it was ripping.

**Brett:** On the back of the news that the potential deal is going to get done.

**Chad:** So, I admitted earlier I was wrong on the March call in the Ferris market. But I do want to go back to January and if we had an editing team to edit that in where I said, “Hey, if you see pullbacks in the copper market,” and I still still own this statement. If you see pullbacks, right,

**Brett:** We’ve seen 540 like I think that is always a good time. I think copper will continue to run. I think the trend is your friend. Anytime we have these drastic pullbacks because of, you know, surprising news. I I just think that’s a great time for the scrap guy to load up some copper in his yard, put it in the back 40, and then just sell it when you see these 620 pops and like I mean that’s almost, you know, 70 80 cents per pound. That’s that’s wild.

**Chad:** Well, and do I mean that’s just off of the and and I don’t know if this is a buy the rumored sell the news event, right? Like with this whole potential like one-page deal they’re putting together with Iran, you know, that came out last night or this early this morning. And and that’s kind of what’s driven the market today, right? This morning is driving that drive the oil price down, copper prices, PGM prices up. And if they actually do get a deal put together, I’m curious what that does. Like does that do we get a real monster run in copper? like, you know, I I was talking I’m going to have a podcast uh with uh my buddy Aldo who’s really deep in the copper market later this week and I’m going to ask that that’s question because he he sends out some investor notes and he talks about the fact that the Comx warehouse is actually not flush but it’s got a lot more inventory than it had in it, you know, four or five months ago. And so like is this just a temporary pop or do we see this as a trend if we can put this um epic fury Iran issue to the side or you know on on hold long enough or or or put it away and be done with it. If it does, I think you get a real like true run in commodities, not just copper, but maybe steel, ferris on the ferris side, you know, I I think there’s there’s still a lot of pent up demand out there on the manufacturing side. And but you I think looking at what he was saying the other day, he’s like maybe it maybe this is just just take take advantage like eat that 619 620 up and be you know take advantage of it now, right? Because you may not it may not go higher. But—

**Brett:** Time will tell. We’re all just betting and guessing at the same time. But I’m with you. Like I I don’t see copper if you get a pullback in it, as long as there’s so much data centered, you know, driven economy, you know, electronic driven economy, um, infrastructure investments in the US or, you know, I mean, I got a huge one in my backyard in Boisey with Micron. I mean, they say it’s like one of the largest uh in the history or in the world right now of the concentration of construction cranes in one spot and it’s in Boise, Idaho, right? It’s bananas. Um but is there’s those projects are going on not like that but like these you know big data center projects these big you know commercial projects that there there’s a lot of them that are approved that they haven’t even started on let alone the ones that are like you know middle of full swing right now. So that’s bullish for steel that’s bullish for copper that’s bullish for aluminum.

**Chad:** Um,

**Brett:** I’m just asking for a friend. But when you have a big project like that, is does the local scrap guy make any money on that deal?

**Chad:** No. No, we never. No. I mean, you get when you get like the crumbs like I’m I’ve been eating crumbs my whole life, bro. Like I I just look I just go around look for people throwing stuff away. Try to save it from going to the landfill, you know?

**Brett:** Like can’t afford a Ferrari, you know? still trying to buy a Lambo, but I got a F250, you know, 2017 I’m still rocking, you know, one of these days, man. One of these days. But big projects like that definitely don’t hurt the local scrap guy. They don’t hurt, you know, I we you listen to all in podcast, we talked about this, right? Like people kind of talk stuff about these data centers and like is it good? Is it not? Like whatever side of the fence you’re on, take it for what it is. But they if the data center like the ones they have slated to be built, the ones they’re currently building like data center construction literally you know people say oh once it’s built it’s not going to provide many jobs right and they talk about this on all podcast and they say like but that that whole data center you know compute driven economy it could literally be a 10 to 15 year run like literally the construction. So like you might have to move down to the next one, but like literally there’s that many projects and the scale and size of these projects that are going on that it’s not just a boom like it’s not just a boom in your town for the people that you know like a it’s going to be a certain amount of jobs in perpetuity once it’s done, but b while it’s in town it’s going to be a two to five year build that’s going to really drive the economics of your local economy, restaurants, hotels, you know, construction jobs, you know, housing, like they have it h it’s got a lot of legs to it. And I think that people the idea gets silicon on a lot, you know, like, oh, it’s not forever jobs, but I mean, is there really such a, you know, a thing, you know, with robots on the ed coming down the line? Like, is there ever a forever job? But give me a three to five years of a big construction, big project. I’ll take that as a local official. I mean, it moves the needle.

**Brett:** Well, what like if we listen to the Allen pod, they said, “Hey, look, these the Max 7 have been just free cash flow machines, right? Software companies, not a lot of cost, huge margins. There’s been huge cash flow machines and they’re pretty much telling you, hey, all 2026, all 2027, we’re going to take this the six $700 billion that we made last year and we’re going to invest it into like boring businesses, right? Into data centers. And if you look at CAT stock, right, Caterpillar stock, it is insane. I mean, it is straight up, right? It’s like 900 bucks. Like pre-COVID, it was 150 bucks. Like, it’s it’s it’s wild. Okay. And so that’s the exciting part is all a sudden like these industrial businesses, these manufacturing businesses, these kind of boring businesses are now going to be sexy to the to the scrap or to the the stock equity world. And so when you when we talk about data centers like if you don’t build it in Boise, it’s going to be done in China or who else where, right? Like that like it it’s going to go somewhere. And you’re exactly right that those I-beams from, you know, new core would be from a Chinese mill if they’re and then that copper is not so all these things. So we gota it’s not it’s just a matter of do we want to take advantage of this AI boom opportunity infrastructurally wise. Obviously these companies are going to be these big mag seven companies are betting a significant amount of cash that it’s going to be a good bet. And so it’s either a missed opportunity for us and we don’t have them and someone else builds them or we we get ball behind them and we let them build them and it’s a and it’s something that’s going to be the world’s going to need in any case.

**Chad:** 100%. And are the rich getting richer? Absolutely. Are the uber rich getting uber richer? Absolutely. Right. But it’s not to say that you can’t get your piece of that pie. And that’s always been like what I told people is like the the the pie is out there and the pie is growing. You want the pie to grow because then that when you take your bite out of it, it’s not as big of a it’s not as big of a bite, right? Like the a grow the pie the bigger it gets. That’s usually good for I mean for anybody that’s hungry enough and willing enough to do the work to go get their piece of it. It’s just where people get they want not something for free or they want it like the easy way like they don’t want like that’s why you know oh tariffs this and blah blah blah or you know data center we don’t want that in our town blah blah blah but the reality of it is like that brings a lot of you know economic prosperity to diff to other industries not just anybody in construction. It brings it to the your local restaurant tour. It brings it to your local motel owner. It brings it to your local car dealership. It brings a lot of prosperity to your area if you’re in a position to try and capture that. But we could all sit around and say, “Oh, we don’t want this and we don’t want that in our backyard.” But the reality is if we don’t build it, someone else is going to build it and they’re going to hurt your economy one way or the other. Right? So, I think commodity-wise, back to your copper chart, we’re at 61819 today, May 6th. Be ready. It’s it’s it’s got the potential to go even higher.

**Brett:** Well, that’s that’s exciting stuff. And all right, so I got I got my last chart for you, Brett. As always, we always wrap up on the the turkey chart. So, this is always a big East Coast driver in the scrap market, right? And so we’re up I think we went from 403 404 to 420. So you know let’s call it 16 bucks. To me this is all this is all fuel cost. This is all freight cost increase. This has nothing to do with actually a higher shipping point price. What what are your I mean what traditionally this if our if the export market goes up—

**Chad:** Five 10 bucks we usually follow. What are what are your thoughts? I think I mean I was reading somebody had wrote something on LinkedIn this morning. They’re talking about, oh, it looks like the price the export price up 15, but that just covers the fuel. The export price really isn’t up, which is basically the same thing that what you’re what you’re saying. And this guy’s like, their company, they’re exporters, you know, um, Deep Water Port. And I think that you can get lost in the top line without remembering what the bottom line actually what makes it to the bottom line. And the biggest thing I want to take my biggest takeaway from a chart like that is that means there’s demand for the material, right? So yeah, that the fuel price is up and but they’re willing to push and cover the fuel price being up means there’s still demand, which in in reality is good because if if if they’re covering the cost of fuel, they realize like that number needs to go higher for us to buy scrap, right? Because if not, if they’re like, “Yeah, price of fuel is up 15, but our price is the same.” That’s kind of like the old FU number, right? Like, if you want to ship it, we’ll take it, but we’re not we’re not paying the extra 15 20 bucks for the fuel, right? I feel like that’s demand demand the demand’s there on the export side which is actually good for the domestic scrap because that means tons are leaving which then does put you in a position with your mill buyer to say hey like you can’t just know that those tons are going to just show up magically because there is still demand out there which is you know usually good and I think I look at it as yeah is the price up because the price of fuel is up yeah are the exporter guys making a little bit more money? Maybe. Depends on their efficiencies. But the fact of the matter is those tons are leaving or have the potential to leave. That’s good. That’s good for your in guys inland. It’s good for your guys that are selling domestically. And because I’m not an export, you know, I don’t ship to the export market. I actually like seeing those numbers go, you know, because it kind of keeps people’s feet to the fire a little bit.

**Brett:** I love it. And I, you know, one thing I’ve I’ve continued to learn learn from you, Brad, is is and we were talking offline about some of the the investments you’re making in your yards and you always do a great job of vesting re reinvesting back into your yards. And this year, like like most years, we never really know what for sure is going to happen, but if it feels like like the steel mill guys, the scrap guys should be having a good first half, right? And and I think this is a great opportunity. You know, when I went to REMA and I heard over and over again, gosh, equipment is so expensive. Gosh, equipment is so expensive. I I think there’s a chance that if if oil prices do kind of subdue, right, if that Iranian war gets handled, if we get a new Fed chair and we see interest rates jump or go down, like this market is going to blow its top off, right? Like, let’s just call it what it is. And we’re already seeing the purchasing management index come up. So, I would just say, you know, Brett has taught me a lot of courage and I would just if you’re a small or medium sized guy, like have some courage this year, you know, I’m I’m going to talk for you, but have some courage cuz I think it’s not things are are not going to just completely blow up internally on the bad side this year. And if you’ve already made some money, like like you have to keep investing back in your facilities when times are better like this.

**Chad:** So, I talked to a lot of equipment guys. I’m an equipment junkie. I own a lot of equipment. Um, and I’m always looking for like an opportunity to, you know, process, upgrade our material, like what’s the next thing, right, to give us our leg up. And I, so I talked to a lot of different equipment um, guys at REMA after and they said that was one of their the best shows they’ve had, which means they sold equipment. Like, so to your point, the people I talked to had a lot of success and we’re talking about everybody from the guys selling little mini, you know, small like alligator shears to guys selling big stuff right? Million plus dollars pieces of equipment. And every one of them that I talked to seemed very happy about their investment in that show and and and what they and the amount of equipment they’ve they’ve quoted or sold or whatever. So I do feel like that being said with the prices are up of equipment for sure, but there’s some money being made in this industry right now and I think that that’s healthy. that gives there’s there’s some opportunity to out there which people that means people are kind of bullish on on what’s what’s what moving forward and I think there’s also the depreciation factor like you got to say like you know the big the big beautiful bill you know back to allowing you 100% depreciation people are trying to get ahead of that right myself included um I don’t I want to be on the right side of that that deal um cuz I I’m not smart enough to put in a Lying Center in Calwell, Idaho. If I was and I could just print money and not do anything I But I’m not that smart. Like I’m not that corrupt. I’m not that smart. So I actually got to do it the old school way like, you know, go make big iron into small iron and find some way to buy it, you know? So to your point, I think there’s a lot of people that are that are doing that. And I think you’re right. I think you have to keep investing in your business. that’s what you know, that’s what you’re good at, but also be aware like what’s going on out there and um and I think to get you to say some positives and be bullish in a way. I feel like I kind of won too. We’ll see.

**Brett:** Bullish? I’m just saying you guys have already made too much money. I mean, just I’m just saying to spend on some—

**Chad:** Oh, you’re saying beware the hammer’s coming. That’s what you’re saying.

**Brett:** I love it.

**Chad:** All right, bud. Well, until until we talk again, everybody make make good trades out there. It doesn’t look like, you know, it’s uh doesn’t look like there’s anything good or bad, you know, pricing wise coming at least this month for you. Trade accordingly. Make make good sales, make good buys, do what you do. But, uh maybe June there will be a little more turmoil in this thing. Hope everybody has a great great month.